and then I just thought, that's not true...
I am always going to need to hear this, fact.
Dov would say that (I think).
I think that's what the Ramchal means as well.
It's not that we need to hear many times to get to some point
and then it's enough.
We always need to hear it, always need a reminder.
Like the shesh zechiros and the mitzvos temidiyos.
Tefilla..., the same, day in, day out...

Well, I guess what I really meant then,
is that I hope I am able to begin...
or really continue letting in the effect of these lessons.

And leaving my comfort zone is scary...
and staying in my comfort zone might be a bit scarier...
It's just that my comfort zone is way too familiar...
HKB"H, help us...

For me the 12 steps helped me so far( although I was still acting out)  to sort of find trust in the Ribono Shel oylam that he would help guide through the tough patches and he has, I sometimes here this little voice inside from my neshoma saying do this and Please please please don't do that.
So I think the whole 12 step approach is to find a deeper way of inspiration and safety and peace with the world so you don't even need to medicate...
(though needless to say I have not arrived there yet)
Forgive my ramblings, but I guess like a lot of people I like trying to connect truths and find common ground when dealing with different tools...

nat,i will not forgive your ramblings unless you start apologizing for them
you put it so well.
We are collecting truths and i think most of them hold some basic points.
We lack a feeling a safety and peace.
And we need to reconstruct that.
Well said
-uri

Uri

you are explaining what you are hearing very well because it is coming across pretty clear.

your therapist speaks the truth

and the idea of needing comfort and security is very simple and basic but also very powerful and often overlooked.

and the overlooking of this-- causes not only problems of a sexual nature but many other problems as well.

because people try to protect themselves in different ways

I think I said this before.

This man you are seeing is a wise person who I think understands not only sexual addiction but also knows alot about life as a human being

For me the more I feel Hashem is with me and giving me security the more I feel that I can stand up to manything and it gives me self esteem than I don't feel the need to Act out and MB so often .
We should all pray to feel how Hashem is holding us in his hand and hugging us with all his might.
He loves us so much we don't need to seclude ourselves and run away hashem is there he made aplace with him for Moshe Rabeinu when he showed his face and he has a special place for us!
Tateh show us how much you love us!!!!

Nat what you say is very true
But my therapist stresses very strongly that the trust has to be trust in oneself first and foremost.
If you dont trust yourself then the trust in Hashem can easily become a form of control/escape.

I had a pretty big insight tonight that was along the lines of my therapy so ill post it here:

I was with a friend and he has a very good looking wife.
But that did not explain the weird gleaming light around her.
If anyone ever filled their lust drives with a girl,they notice the gleaming light very soon dissapears.

We are like a thirsty person in a desert and we are seeing mirages.
So 2 things...
1)Find what it is in us that is lacking that is making these things so glittery.What are we thirsty for?!
2)Understand that this is just a mirage.

Each take their own path with this....

Wow Uri. I think that explains what I went through today!

Weird gleaming light. Isn't that the metaphor!

I think we are not arguing here we for sure cannot rely and trust on the sick addict part of ourselves rather on the healthy part of our personality.
And that healthy part is the part that is always connected to Hashem not meaning to say that we lose our own security.
But its one and the same we don't need to run away or hide since its part of who we are.
Does this makes sense or does this sound like a lot of baloney since I need a club sandwich?

This week's meeting was different.

He spent the first half hour asking me what type of porn I'm in to/was in to.
A little uncomfortable,to say the least.
He was writing all my fantasies down on a sheet of paper.
I felt low.
But then we examined the common side of all the different stuff I found enticing.
And it became much more clear.
And less animalistic.
And deeper...

His point in it all was working on acceptance of ourselves.
We just say "Uch I'm a porn addict.How pathetic!!"
But we gotta see our deeper needs.
Our yearnings.
Our emptiness,sadness,and desperation.
And then,and only then,will we understand our desire.
We are not evil for desiring happiness.
No one should be denied these things.
Let us understand ourselves.
And through that,accept ourselves.

Good day to all
-uri

Uri,

that's deep and beautiful.
i hope you were able to see what lies beneath it all.
something ive been struggling to do for a long time
and haven't really succeeded.

Uri

thank you for posting this.

I don't know if this is what your therapist is getting at, but this is what I am thinking as I read what you wrote.

because I always felt that there are basic human needs (even needs of a healthy and decent Yid) that are very deep and yet we will not admit that we have those needs, though are not unhealthy, but simply human.

and because  we deny ourselves the self-knowledge of things that we really need,we turn to unhealthy ways in the expression of those needs.

and so,we need to admit what we really need,and understand it,and accept it  and see if we can direct this in a healthy way.

we want to connect with another human being,in the Torah this human being is a person's wife or husband, in a very deep way.

This is a healthy thing to yearn for and strive for.

In some cases,the ugly patterns of behavior is when this healthy yearning cannot be attained or cannot be directed in a healthy way.

In other cases,it goes like this:

like a boy who was neglected and ignored because he is good and quiet and polite.

He feels lonely and unwanted.

So now he defaces his school with grafitti and crazy stuff written all over the walls.

He gets into big trouble

But atleast now he is known and even respected in a weird way by many in his school.

He is now Somebody.

the need to be known and appreciated is a basic human trait.

That is good.

It's the unhealthy expression of that need that is the issue that should be adressed

how to direct this need in a healthy way.

Yechida,

In essence,yes.
But in example,not at all.

Graffiti is destruction.
Way different.
Looking for attention and uniqueness.

This is a deep need for love and connection.
What kind of porn a person likes shows what the person desires deeper down.

I understand what you are saying

the grafitti is an outlet for attention not directly related(only an outside manifestation) to the basic need

while with this,you are right,there is a deep need for love and connection.

the proof in the pudding is that the more intellectual scientific thinking types that do not have strong emotional feelings within them, have  much much less of a problem with pornography and the like.

It is the people who "feel" alot that struggle with this much more 

yechida wrote on 24 Sep 2009 16:47:


WRONG. I'm a science type.

then I am wrong and I stand corrected

or perhaps there are different underlying reasons for different people

but because I am not certain,I will assume I was wrong until I understand better