ok, so there was a thread called being single that was posted in this past february...
i decided to just start a new topic.

there is a lot of talk about this all over the forum anyway. but im thinking...

im a single guy. and people keep saying that it is harder for married men, because they need to turn their sexual feelings on and off, while we single men can just turn them off. so, pas b'salo was mentioned in that thread from february, but people seem to leave it out a lot in their back and forths about the issue. halachic example (that might be a bit graphic...), when i got to the bathroom, i am not supposed to touch myself. im not sure anymore where i saw this... kitzur shulchan aruch? mishna berura? gemara brachos? a married man can touch himself b/c pas b'salo. there is even a question of when he's not going to be home if it still applies or not. so a bochur cant touch himself but a married guy can cause it's easier for the married guy?!!!

im not speaking from experience so i could be off, but i think as a married man, if i was feeling an urge..., it would be easier to apply the idea of pushing it off for a bit, not right now, b/c i know i'll be with my wife at some point..., whereas as a single guy, im feeling an urge..., and when will i ever get release?!!! after all it is a natural feeling..., so what do i do with it?

thanks for listening..., any thoughts?

struggle,

a single guy, not having an easy time...

you know something struggle,youre right on the dot.
what i give for an outlet.oy!
people pay for this stuff.
but i dont knw if itd help our addiction.
i think it would just cut down the frustration alot.
but dont forget that once u get used to it,its annoying with nidda and stuff.
but still,im with struggs (as everyone knows)
matir women for the singles!!!
-uri

Uri wrote on 07 Sep 2009 10:25:


i dunno if that's what i was implying kiddo...
but, it would be cool!!

Alright. The single guys vote it's harder to be single. Well, now here's a married guy saying it's harder to be married.

You say when you feel the urge, it's easier to be married because you'll get some release eventually. Well, how do you think a married guy feels if he's feeling very horny and his wife just isn't in the mood that night? That just triples the frustration!

It's hard to turn the lust off, but once you do, you can keep it off. No touching. A clear limit. Once you start with sometimes yes, sometimes no, it's harder.

Uri, people do pay for that stuff, but when you're paying, she has to say yes. A wife is not a prostitute, and has the will to say no. As far as I was told, it's known that in general a women's sex drive is lower than a man's so expect some sexual conflict. By the way, it's rape if you force your wife when she's not in the mood and you are. This is clearly forbidden by secular law and halacha.

Uri, by the way, your comment to matir women for the singles is your Y"H talking (the addiction). You are turning women into objects.

News flash for all single men: Women are interested in a relationship, which mostly means TALKING and LISTENING, not touching.

Momo wrote on 07 Sep 2009 10:56:

i know.thats why i turn down the shidduchim

The idea of Pas b'salo is quite obviously talking about regular people. It may be that anyone living in a world flooded with p*** is not considered "regular", I don't know. But an addict? Why would we think that something that works for a normal person (that's normal by Torah standards) should nesscarily work for someone who's life has been dominated by a crazily exagerated sex-drive?

One thing is for sure: If you think that your wife can be an outlet for a sex-crazed person, you'd be in for a major dissapointment to say the very least. Chazal said about themselves that their wives save them from sin. Their whole life was Torah, Torah and Torah. For the little bit of taivoh that was left in them, having relaitions a few times a month was helpful. But if the lust can dominate you, then as Chazal say, the more you feed it - the more you need it. 

Battleworn and Momo have some good points there...

Some helpful links for the singles:

www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ17.asp
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ11.asp
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ1.asp
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Tips/LFLN.asp
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ41.asp
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ8.asp -- about dating

Uri wrote on 07 Sep 2009 10:25:


Who, then, would be willing to take on the responsibilities of marriage?

Nobody, which is why divorce rates are shockingly high these days.

I say blame the hippies. I'm serious. "Free love" has been tried over and over again throughout history and it never works.

I can't believe people really think they can have successful marriages after being with so many people beforehand.

And that's what keeps me in control of myself, more than anything else--including the Halacha. I'm the science type (ISTJ, remember) so real life statistics are much more helpful than abstract laws and rabbis with huge beards telling me what to do.

Plus, some of you may remember from my original thread that I didn't exactly grow up in a "normal" household, so I've seen firsthand what happens when it all falls apart. And part of preventing that is controlling yourself before marriage. God knows I don't want to live through that again, and I certainly don't want my kids to go through it. I'd go so far as to say it's better not to have kids than to raise them in that kind of mess. Argue with me if you want to, but I can tell you that the scars never go away. You're always a little weird inside. No matter what happens or who you become, there's a part of you deep down that's still that little kid who wanted to be happy like his friends, who's scared and angry and confused all at once, who can't trust anybody for anything, and who wishes so strongly to be someone else but who somehow understands that it can never happen, who understands that for whatever reason, he's been chosen to lead a life of pain.

The point: zip it up. For you, your future wives, and your future kids.

But you don't have to take my word for it. Look up the statistics.

ok bruce...,

so whaddya think? more difficult for married or single men?

and yes,

good points were made by the married men, but im going to hold off on responding until i get through all of guard's reading material

OK bARDICHEV IS SOOO PREDICTABLE

TOO BAD

MORE SHMORE

DO THE RIGHT THING

KEEP ON TRUCKING

YES MARRIAGE HAS ITS BENEFITS

ONCE YOU ABUSE THOSE PRVLAGES

IT IS "WORSE THAN BEING SINGLE"

MY 2 GROSHEN

b

And regarding the poster who said frequent ejaculation is healthy and all that:

I've heard that before, and I read the original study. As with many scientific studies, the media misinterpreted it and jumped to conclusions. The study merely suggests that there might be a reduced risk of getting prostate cancer. As with most studies of this type, more research needs to be done.

Even if the conclusions were buttressed by other studies, there are plenty of other things you can do to prevent prostate cancer, like actually exercising regularly and eating a well balanced diet that includes lots vegetables and anti-oxidants, which benefits the whole body and mind, not just the prostate. But people are always looking for the path of least resistance, and simply ejaculating your way to prostate health sounds much more appealing than lifting heavy weights and being meticulous about your diet.

Similarly, there have been studies suggesting chocolate has anti-cancer and anti-depressant properties. Does that mean you should eat 5 pounds of chocolate a day? Again, the path of least resistance is not the best choice, while the path of most resistance (lifting heavy weights and eating right) is much better.




Finally, regarding the link about the guy saying he is more attracted to other women than to his own wife:

I have no idea what his wife looks like, but there would be many more happy men on the planet if their wives took better care of themselves. At the end of the day, we men are still superficial creatures who enjoy beautiful women. Sure, the relationship stuff and the personal connection is the most important part, but if a girl who weighs 700 pounds thinks someone is going to marry her "for her personality", she's deluding herself. Look, I can forgive a woman for being a bit "overweight" and/or not spending 2 hours every morning to do her hair or whatever it is they do, but there's a difference between that and just letting her looks go to hell.

And that's my two cents.

Struggle,

I'm not married so I can't really give a well informed response. All I know is that I feel like it's nearly impossible.
For example, the other day I saw a young couple around my age holding hands while walking down the street. That's quite far from actual copulation, but it's still some kind of release. And I can't even do that.

So if I had to vote I would say it's harder being single. I could swear that all my married friends took on a different look to their faces and in their eyes once they got married. It's hard to describe but it's sort of like a look of calm. The frustration is gone, or at least most of it is.

So no, I don't feel bad for you married people who have to wait 2 weeks during niddah or who get shot down "cause I have a headache" or whatever. Wish I could hear that excuse.

My personal experience: With all the challenges that there are, these challenges are easier if you're married.

This is true for at least two reasons: 1.) Chazal don't need my Haskama, but the concept of "Pas b'Salo" is intuitive. 

2.) Being married can serve as an anchor: even if I strayed in the past, my wife helped to keep me in check.  For example, even if I felt lousy, I still davened, usually with a Minyan, and generally kept up my Sedarim with a Chavrusa.  Otherwise, my wife would begin to wonder what's wrong?

thanks Kedusha...

your honesty is appreciated and you are officially welcome to chill with the single men whenever you're in the mood for an all guys night out...

oh, and just to be official like Guard...

Kedusha (who's married...) has some good points here...