I have not done this befor, both the posting and the opening up, but I will try to do my best. Please tell me if anything I post is inapproprate in any way. I am not married and a little younger than most GYE members. My family is not religous, but I have been trying to be for about a year now. Befor that, I would masterbate whenever I was stessed. I did it almost every night. I've never even taken drugs or alchohol (except for kiddish) so masterbating was my only coping method. You have to understand that because I was secular I did not see anything wrong with it. Well, when I learned from my Rabbi that Jews should not do that, I said I would just stop. Lot easier said than done. Since trying to stop, I have been able to go only 2-3 days without falling again. And when I do fall, I get so depressed that I end up falling again and again. My Rabbi always tells me that it is natural to have these urges and I am better than everyone else for just trying to stop. Is it also natural to not be able to stop. Why do I lack the self control to just stop? I get so depressed after falling that I see a theropist to deal with my depression. I have never told him why I am always so depressed, partly because I don't feel comfortable with him. I just don't know what to do. Sometimes I feel that I should I just give-up and trust that these felling will disappear when I get older. Does that make sence, or is my evil inclination trying to trick me? Addiction is defined as not being able to stop a dangerous coping method because of the users dependance on it. That describes my perfectly. Can I really be an addict when I am only 16 years old? I just don't know, I don't know. Please if anyone can help me in any way I would be forever gratful. I just don't understand. Please, I need help.

keep us posted, guy.

Dear some_guy (It really might help if you just used your real first name, sir, as this username thing is for what?...ok, enough about that...)

You wrote that you go to a shrink to help you with the depresion you feel because you masturbate - and you feel sad about it because you have discovered that it is an aveira. Is that correct? I think I am just quoting your earlier post.

But then you mention that you have not explained to your therapist the real reason that you feel so upset....I assume that you mean that you have not told him about the fact that it is an aveiro...but maybe you mean something else. Feel free to clarify that if u want to.

In any case, one thing is clear:

You are not really using a therapist. You are selectively sharing the truth with him. If you do not trust him, then drop him and find one that you trust.

Hatzlocha!

Dear Dov,
You are correct. I go to a therapist for the reasons you described, but it is a little more complicated than what you think. I had clinical depression befor and saw this therapist. I think the reason I was depressed then was because I am a perfectionist. That means that if I ever do something even a little wrong I may get really upset by it. Befor the triggers was school and social life, now it those plus M. He thinks it is better to reach the root of my perfectionism than to try to comfront every trigger I have. My Rabbi says that for now I should not tell him about my problem with M, unless my therapist presses harder on my triggers and I feel more comfortable with him. My biggest fear is that because he is not jewish, he may encourage me to M if not doing so causes stress. Who knows, maybe when he solves my perfectionist problem, he will also inadvertatly solve my M problem. I hope this post will help you understand my relationship with my therapist.

If your therapist is a real therapist, then he will accept your condition that masturbation is unacceptable to you - at least as much as your rabbi does. After all, it was your rabbi who first told you that guilt feelings are unproductive and not the proper way to respond to your habit, as the problem you have is quite common. Your wrote:


So. A therapist (unless he is a religious-based advisor - like your Rav is) is bound to be non-judgemental, he would work with a homosexual couple as diligently to work out what they describe as "marriage trouble", as he would have to with a normal real married couple. By the same token, even though he may in fact believe that porn and masturbation ae good ways to deal with stress of life and growing up, still - if it is your personal goal to live free of it, that is the goal of the therapy.

But the trick is that you must make this clear with the shrink at the outset. No question. You do not accept having masturbation a normal part of your life, period. If this is what you believe and your goal - say it to him.

And at the same time, ask him point blank - put an end to the fuzzy mushiness and (comfortable) confusion - "Can you honestly work with me to achieve my goals - or do you feel that due to your personal beliefs, you will try to sway me toward accepting masturbation as an OK outlet for myself?" Ask him point blank. If you cannot bring yourself to do that, then explain this to your Rov and ask him to do it for you with the shrink. And if you or the Rov get the impression that this guy is nor safe or nor sincere, then look for someone else, quick.

It is simply not fair to you - or to this therapist - to just leave out a major ikkar of your problem because you simply cannot trust him to be honest with you. It smacks of the same old secrecy that we all use to go off hide with our porn and masturbate.

You will get better the open way, not the hidden way.

Hatzlocha!!

Someguy, gaining self-mastery over the sexual urge is the most difficult challenge for a man. It is not easy so don't beat yourself up if you don't reach perfection overnight. Also, if the habit is ingrained, it will probably take some time to totally break free from the addiction. Your Rabbi is also right - it is totally natural to have these urges, but we have to learn to use this divine energy for the right purposes and not channel it into self-destruction and to the Klipah.

As a starting point, if you haven't already I would suggest reading the GYE handbooks. I found the attitude one particularly useful for giving me perspective and putting me in the right frame of mind to tackle this beast.

You should also know that depression is one of the Satan's biggest weapons. BC once you're depressed he doesn't even have to tempt you to sin anymore - you do his work for him. So if you fall, realise it's all part of the learning and recovery process. Instead, analyse each fall and honestly realise what made you fall. Write the causes down so you can create protective fences and learn to avoid those situations next time. Also, some sage said that the Tzaddik must fall seven times and get up seven times before he learns how to become a Tzaddik. It's only by his falls that he learns how to protect himself.

Stay away from boredom and do this by keeping busy with healthy activities that will build up your body and mind. Get out and socialise with good people that will help keep you on track. It's far easier to sin when you're in isolation.

Also, I've used psychiatrsists before and they;re basivcally a bunch of quacks. All they do is to tell you things you already know yourself, and try to prescribe you drugs which make you dumb. The only person that can really help you is YOURSELF. So don't listen to the Yetzer Hara. Start working on the addiction from today one day at a time and with determination and hard work you will succeed. Can't tell you how envious I am of you to have discovered the truth at such a young age before hitting rock bottom.

Good luck and keep us posted! Any more questions more than happy to try and help.

BW,

DL

Welcome SOME guy!

Yasher Koach for taking on this challenge. Yes you can be an addict at 16. I was addicted from a younger age than that, and continued doing it for another 30 years. Getting married and getting older doesn't cure it.

What worked for me, and continues to work, is cutting myself off completely from lust. This means 2 things: very strict shmiras eynayim, and guarding my mind against lustful thoughts. I find if I've guarded myself from these 2 sources of lustful stimuli, I can go to sleep peacefully at night.

Guarding your eyes is up to you. It means no looking at women in any form, live or in pics.

Guarding my mind means whenever a lustful thought or image tries to take a seat in my brain, I IMMEDIATELY start davening, asking Hashem to take my lust. To give up lust itself is the goal. It's the only way I know.

Hatzlocha and keep us posted!

Alex

Dear Some-guy,

Who says you are an addict?! In respect to the great folks who posted above, I want to reserve the right to be honest as I see it. Having a tendency to repeatedly do what feels really, really good does not make you or anyone else an addict.

I suggest that you stick with your shrink with whom you have a budding relationship, start being fully honest and upfront with him about everything for a change, and see where that takes you, be"H. Hashem works through him, you know. He does not only work through Rav Elyashiv. Harbei shluchim laMakom means even goyim, even animals, even you and me...

As far as advising you on exactly what you need, I really do not know - and neither does anyone else here. We here read short posts that you write on this virtual forum, and - though I am sure you are trying to be as honest and open as you can - you only write your side of the story and tell over only the things you think we should know. And there is nothing wrong with doing that - it is 100% normal. It's what we all do! How can we possibly believe we know your entire story? What about your past, your relationship with the people around you, your attitude toward your body, your G-d, and your future? All that has a big effect on what you are doing. That is why a longer term, and in-person relationship with almost anyone is far more relevant than fishing for advice here. Yes, the yidden here may truly love you...from a distance. Yes there are tzaddikim and talmidei chachomim here...but YOU are not here - only a shadow of you, based on some short posts.

All we can do is suggest....take a pot shot. But you need to decide. And assuming you are an addict - an ill person who cannot get himself better no matter how hard he tries and needs a miracle - that is a big thing to decide, I say.

I suggest you do all you can to get good advice here, share as much as you can and be as open as you can. But do not forget that you are not really here, that we really do not know you, and that you have a shrink dedicated to you - and you are not being fully open and honest with him...you are not using the tools Hashem is sending you. So fishing for more tools will not help you, if when you are done listening to what we say, you just go off to yet another self-help book, another advisor, another forum...

Look in your own backyard, G-d is 'trying' to help you.

Hatzlocha!

Shalom Alejchem, Some_guy

My story is very similar to Yours, with exception that I am already 23 and didnt go to a shrink (and my Rebbe bepashtus doesnt know about my problems...i hope..).

believe me, the feelings won`t go away. lemaase Alexeliezer said what i wanted to say already. From my side I would like just to add, that menuchas haNefesh (=trying to be calm and coldblooded) might help. I heard once a medrash, that Yetzer hora is like a bandit sitting on the road but without legs..His voice is scarring, but lemaase if You dont come close, he cant harm you. His weapon is to make You think, You dont have time and that You HAVE to do something NOW. just dont! good luck

Hello Some_guy, welcome to the forum.

I think opening up is a process, not a one-time effort.

You took the first step to start posting here, and now you've got some responses to think about--things you might not have thought of on your own. So, process it, try it on for size, question it. And write more of what you come up with.

I also grew up in an environment where p*rn and m*sturbation were things to be glorified. I also started at a very young age. I also have issues with perfectionism, and I also see stress as a major driving force behind my acting out.

In the course of my recovery, I have learned how to better accept myself--the good and the bad, and overall how to cope with life in a healthier, happier way.

Good luck to you (and keep on posting!)

--Elyah

Thank you all for the great advice. I hav some news. Last night was the first night in about a week that I stayed clean! I feel so proud of myself. Still, I wonder if that is good or bad. It is good because I should be happy after managed to do something VERY difficult. However, does this mean that when I do fail that I will feel ever worse? Maybe the Yetzer Hora gave my this paradox to stop me from feeling the joy that I should feel? I am starting to confuse myself, so I will just to try stop thinking about it. Also, some of you said that I need a relationship with a local person, not just GYE. It was the most difficult thing that I have ever done, but about 6 months ago I did tell my Rabbi. Ever since he has been supporting and caring for me. So don't worry that I am just using this site, I have other tools I can use to help me.

When I have a clean day, or pass a particularly difficult test, I am neither happy nor sad. Rather, I am humbled that Hashem helped me, supported my lame self through it. I know that I can't do this on my own. So when I do it, I know that it is really Hashem answering my tefillos. That does feel good.

Just stay clean and don't think about it too much.

Glad to hear you've got some live support, too.

KUTGW,

Elyah

For the last few weeks I have been doing terrible. I could only do two or three clean days followed by four or five bad ones. Every time I fail I feel as thought I should just give up and surrended. I feel like there is no point in trying to stop and it would just be better to stop struggeling. I feel terrible, but almost every time I am faced with difficulty, I fail. I feel like I am not trying hard enough to save myself. It seems that I don't have the right to seek more help, when I don't do anything with the help I have. I don't know what to do. I just want thisw all to end.

Sorry you are feeling so down. Thank you for posting.

I am curious to know, for starters, what help have you got (that you're not using) that you are referring to?

--Elyah