good to know. i have worked a little with the steps. what would you recomend to read to understand them with clarity ? 

Hopefully others will chime in.
You can start here:
www.guardureyes.com/GUE/GUEList/GUEList10.asp
Scroll down to email # 487

Back tomorrow

Do you think you're an addict?

i think i am, maybe ther are certain levels to addiction, but to a certain extent i must be, i have no control over myself once i start. if this means addiction than i am an addict. however i have searched for the definition of addiction and i didn't get a satisfying answer. i guess the first step (of the12) is to recognize that you are powerless, that means you have to accept that it is an addiction.

Makes sense to me.  Admitting powerlessness also means you're not going to go up against it, but rather are going to avoid it.

seen this quote a while ago " I am not a alcoholic I am a drunk; alcoholics go to meetings"

I guess if being addicted is what will get me to clean up then let me be a addict.

Agree.  It's a useful approach, whether you're a full-blown addict (like me) or just struggling a little too much.

mgsbms wrote on 22 Sep 2011 19:40:


I believe the 12 steps comes after the addiction not the other way around..

so how does one know if he is an addict ?

I think guard put it well in an old post that I can't find.  I think the basic idea was, if you are trying to stop but can't.

I think this is the post Gibbor is referreing to.  It's from a controversial thread, so I'm reposting it here rather than linking.

Zogt Rabbeinu Guard:

Here's my view of "powerlessness" and "addiction". It's pretty much based on what I learned from Dov, and you're free to disagree.

It's very simple. A "powerless addict" as defined by AA standards is someone who (1) knows he must stop (2) but he can't.

So... someone who knows he must stop and he does stop, is not an addict.

And... someone who doesn't feel he must stop and he indeed continues acting out, is also not an addict.

Only someone who knows he must stop or he's finished - and yet he can't stop no matter what he tries, such a person is a "powerless addict" and he is ready for step 1 of the 12 steps.

Somehow, the 12-Step program seems to work best for such people.

If you were able to stop when you decided you must, then you were never an addict in the first place.

Thanks. AE. That's the one I was referring to.

I never saw that post, it's unbelievable! It should really be on the opening page for this website. No?

then i am an addict, period.

Mazal Tov!  That's an important realization.  To me it was a huge relief, because it meant there was a way out despite my failed attempts at raw self control.
Others have gotten out of it, and so will you.