Hi everyone
I have written an introduction to myself at the following board: http://www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4308.0

This is the first time that I am seeking help for the issue of Shmiras Habris (SB for short) from actual people instead of sforim etc. Even when my friends start talking about the issue of SB I don't usually add to the discussion, instead I sort of fade into the background so that no-one "finds out" that I too have this problem. But I realised that I am only doing myself a disservice in not seeking help.

My current issue is not with pornography as I have sort of stayed clear of that stuff for the last 2 years or so.

My current issue that I am desperately seeking help for isn't even that I can't control my desire; as I am trying, and extremely unsuccessfully at that, to fall asleep at night, since I can always determine that that the cause of this problem, I'll write what the cause is for me (it probably will be different for others since I am aware that other members of the olam also have this issue and maybe it could help them
1) I was looking at very inappropriate things, in real life or otherwise on that day, or maybe yesterday.
2) I didn't do enough physical exercise that day so although my mind is very weary, my body certainly isn't, so since I am lying here basically doing nothing (which is how to fall asleep after all) and not falling asleep, so again just doing nothing. Due to the nature of the extremely complex thing that the human mind is, it will refuse to do absolutely nothing, so it puts on a screensaver of sorts and that screen saver starts to activate other parts of yourself.
3) I drank/ate some sort of thing that stimulates the nervous system and is actively being pumped around my blood stream and preventing me from falling asleep.
Basically anything that causes me to not drop into bed and fall asleep while en-route to the pillow can create this problem for me so that is not what I am seeking help with.

What I do need help with is that often if I haven't done it in a few days (like 10) and I am pent up then I will go to sleep at night and fall asleep and then at some point in the night I would wake up and being half awake and having little willpower I would do it while lying right there and then automatically go back to sleep. Sometimes I wouldn't always have a full recollection/memory of if i even did it, just a vague recollection or an ominous feeling that I have come to know. All this which makes it even harder to stop since it practically feels as if I don't have any free will in the matter which can't be the case right? I thought Hashem always gives us free will so it must be within my power to stop myself but HOW?? I mean how can you stop doing something you can't control and possibly don't even recall. Just to be clear on this issue, I am not having what is known as a nocturnal emission, which is something different and is a type of ones (correct?), I am actually causing it myself so it must be B'Mayzid. I am aware of the idea that once you have stopped doing something for 90 days it becomes much easier (I just joined the chart in fact) but how can I reach 90 days if I can't even stop myself from "resetting the clock" every time I start to progress. I even tried sleeping in pants that have a belt that I would fasten tightly so that I would buy myself a few precious moments of time to wake up more and stop myself but it didn't help at all, as undoing the belt quickly became a habit in and of itself and therefore didn't require any active thought hence I would still remain in that state of half-awakened-ness.

This has been my main nisayon for the last two years since I have somewhat stopped everything else that is assur or at least I am trying and know what to do, but this aspect is really, honestly starting to cause me to despair and it even makes me feel less bad about doing it during the days since my Yetzer Hara  tells me, "Well you probably will do it later so you may as well do it now" which is total rubbish since there is clearly a difference in Hashems eyes in doing it while fully awake vs half asleep,but half asleep is still half awake so it is definitely a problem that I need to solve.

PLEASE, PLEASE if anyone else encounters this issue, even if you don't have any advice in the topic but just want to tell me that you have the same issue and are with me in this battle don't hesitate to reply since I desperately need some support here. If you don't feel comfortable in the forum (I also didn't but I am feeling desperate here!) then just email me: nebulamud@gmail.com.

Handcuffs?  ;D ;D


But seriously, since you seem to indicate that this problem is triggered by what happened during the day, maybe it's best not to agonize over this so much and work on the underlying issues of what you look at and do during the day, and you just may find that it takes care of itself eventually.

KOT!!!

Gevura!

Gevura ShebYesod wrote on 15 Aug 2011 19:23:


Lol handcuffs might work but what if there is a fire or something
The thing this issue mostly seems to happen only on those days which really were completely clean, not the ones where I 'slipped', and I would therefore have to deal with it before I was asleep.
It honestly happens out of nowhere.

as Gevura said, your area of concentration is on what you do when you are awake and conscious. especially if it happens on days that were clean, although it may be hard to gauge what the cause is if it comes after only 1 or two days clean, maybe it is a delayed reaction from 3 days ago?

as you live cleaner and cleaner it should trickle down to your subconscious as well. the Ribono Shel Olam is not a slavedriver and He does not expect you to be able to turn into an ish kadosh at the snap of your fingers. rather, take small consistent steps to move in the right direction and ask Him to take care of the rest. He can help you with sub-conscious behavior.

Remember also tefila. Reb Noson of Breslov said: if something is lacking, it is either because you did not daven for it or you did not daven enough for it.

NebulaMud,

welcome to the forum and congratulations on overcoming your nervousness of posting.

I can relate very much to what you wrote and I have my own 2 cents to give.
My longest streak ever was almost 6 months. During those 6 months, I had different periods of strength and control.
In the beginning, when first stopping, I had wet dreams quite often. Gradually, these subsided since my subconscious started following the patterns of my conscious. Months 3-5 were the best. I had no emissions or dreams for very long stretches of time. Only rarely did I have any sort of issue. In the last month, I started having issues with thoughts during the daytime and I noticed that when this happened, I suddenly had inappropriate dreams again, only worse than before; I would know in my dream that it was wrong to do it and I even told myself the stuff I would say when I was awake but this didn't get me anywhere.
I then would wake up, after the dream, and dwell on what had happened and be depressed about it. My YH would then say, "what's the difference if you do it again during day? You already did it purposely last night". I got weaker and weaker from giving credit to the YH's claims. I started having more bad thoughts during the day.
Then, I started having half-awake episodes like you described. I knew what I was doing but I didn't have the will power since I was only half awake.
I made the terrible mistake of agonizing over these episodes which led me to give up and have more bad thoughts.
From there, it was a very short time until I fell. Right now, I am up again and working harder than ever, thank G-D.

What I learned from this all is that you should not be upset about the past and dwell on stuff that happened, no matter how at fault you are. The past is past. I'm in the present. The YH wants you to get into that depressed mode where you think it's all over and you have no control. But the first step in the 12 steps is knowing that you are not in control. Only Hashem has the ability to stop the Yetzer. We do not. I will daven to Hashem to please let me control the Yetzer NOW.

On a practical level, I recommend saying the first 4 Prakim of Tehillim before going to sleep. It's a known sgulah that has helped me.

Take care,

KH

Hey Nebula,

I'm really glad that I've finally met somebody else who has this problem. With me, I would 'sleep-bate' if I was undergoing a period of stress and intense anger and discontent. Indulging in things like lads' mags which I refused to admit were soft porn also affected my subconscious.

Over the past 6 months things have improved a lot. What I did was to build more regular exercise into my life, avoid perving and fantasising about attractive women, never overeat in the evening (try and avoid red meat and shellfish for dinner cos it makes you horny). Also deleted all my video games and gave them to charity. The extra time is now devoted to reading and music. Somehow, games made me feel violent and very randy. Apparently, excessive gaming also makes you dumber by making parts of your brain smaller.

I've also started scanning the Zohar every evening before I go to bed. Since I've done that I haven't fallen once. If you think it could help, I use this website:  dailyzohar.com/?page_id=1562

Also, don't beat yourself up over accidents. Just persevere and eventually the images in your subconscious will be erased. Btw, can I ask how old you are and whether you're married or single?

BW,

DL



 

DesertLion wrote on 15 Aug 2011 22:58:

Thanks for the feedback DesertLion, it is very nice to hear from someone who can relate to what I am going through. I also got rid of my video games as although i would use them to "unwind" in day I wouldn't actually feeel anymore relaxed after playing them for any amount of time, so the only purpose they served was to hype me up and make me aggressive, (and probably dumber as you said) and I don't need any "assistance" in the aggressive-izing area
Also you are right, any type of images like that just completely hijack ones subconcious and almost force one to do things that one immediately will regret.
I will def try the daily Zohar thing and get back to you about it, bli neder.
I am unmarried, studying in yeshiva (in Israel) for the last 3 years and I am 21 years old.

Kidushashem: Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me, and if i wrote more about my own experiences i probably would have written almost exactly word for word what you wrote, particularly:

kidushashem wrote on 15 Aug 2011 22:51:

Also I will try that first 4 tehillim segulla when I feel that I need it, bli neder.

i have also had this problem.
the most important klal is keep yourself BUSY by day
try establishing a bed time and stick to a regular sleeping schedule
also work on saying shema before going to sleep with extra kavanah- think about v'ahavta- how much you truly love hashem. of course when you're really exhausted this is hard, but i find that i can sometimes work myself into an overtired superpositive state of mind where i looooove hashem and only want to do his will and then i repeat rigzu v'al techeta'u like a million times until i just drift off
hatzlacha rabba and remember IM ATAH MAAMIN SHE'EFSHAR L'KALKEL TA'AMIN SHE'EFSHAR L'TAKEIN 

I had many problems with nightime when I was a bochur. (As an adult my problems grew into day time issues.but the night issues subsided)

Hey Nebula,

Forgot to mention that I've noticed that being cocky, refusing to work on one's ego and character faults also lead to wasting seed at night. This addiction destroyed me not only physically but also ruined my character. When I think about it and start being a bit humble, I realise that just avoiding porn and masturbating aren't enough by themselves. Usually, the root problem stems from R.I.D. and that's only going to go away once your attitude and then your circumstances improve dramatically.

It's like forcibly scraping off the rust from an old sword, but gotta do it if we're going to shine.

That's my two cents anyhow.

BW,

DL   

it seems almost exactly like my story. what i try doing after i say shema is to listen to slow jewish music which keeps my mind off other things. but its great to hear other people have a similar issue so lets grow together and become stronger as one.

Thank you tryhard for your adive, I can definately see how listening to the right type of music can keep ones mind off other things, and thank you for sharing your empathy with us.

DesertLion: I can definately see how being arrogannt,and refusing to work on ones ego can make this issue worse since there is obviously an aspect of self involvement going on in this area.

Backontrack: At least that gives the bochurim present some hope that it won't carry on that long, but I am realising that there is no substitute for completely gaurding ones eyes and following all appropriate tools in the handbook that can keep one far away from these issues even while still a bochur.

And TehillinZuger: You're advice about keeping a regular schedule is perhaps the strongest technique at avoiding these issues, since if you have a regular sched, then you spend less time tossing and turning around all the time, as far as concentrating on v'ahavta as much as one can, i find that although I can enter a state of sleep in that mode, I will still wake up with those feelings out of my mind in the middle of the night, but it can certainly help one during the period of waiting to fall asleep.

hey NebulaMud i wanted to really thank you for bringing up this topic. ive been on the forum many times but ive never posted before but once i read your post i just feel compelled to reply. i can relate to everything that you brought up with one slight difference i feel that this night issue was my turning point into becoming a full blown addict of course i had a very difficult childhood & was introduced to lust at a very young age( i think alot of us have this in common) but i still feel that this night thing played a vital part. before i became an all out addict i was what you would call a dry drunk . i would have 6 months of sobriety then fall . this usually happened during bein hazmanim i would be able to white knuckle it during the zman but when i came home i would fall apart . the older i got & the more stress/RID i was under i began to have trouble sleeping at night . i would fall into a restless sleep & an hour later i would jump out of bed like i was on fire . there were nights that this happened literally every hour on the hour. my roomates thought i was nuts. as the stress kept on coming my body needed a way to release all that pent up tension & i began waking up to myself acting out i even once woke up in to find myself looking at some hardcore p*** site w/o having any recollection of how i got there this was the first time i had used my phone for shmutz & after that it was all downhill. sometimes i would just wake up in the morning with a funny feeling that something happened last night i just had no idea what. this really scared me because maybe one of my roommates heard or saw me while i had no recollection whatsoever i was terrified that maybe i would try to do something to them while i was in my quasi-conscious mode. BH this never happened. i no longer suffer from this night issue because now i just act out on a regular basis unfotunately in the past 5 months i havnt had more then 6 days of sobriety. but i still have restless nights especially during bein hazmanim when im in a very RID-filled environment just this past friday night i woke up at 2 in the morning to find myself checking out my bbm that means i had to enter my 6 digit password on my blackberry & go to my bbm i didnt realize what i was doing until i read a message from my sister wishing me a gut shabos then it hit me hey its shabos what am i doing. the thing that would help me make it through the night would be just to chill out a little to work on my resentments to trust in Hashem a little more but being that this takes a long time & isnt that easy maybe try some NON-ADDICTIVE sleep medication like tylenol pm or some herbal supplement that will put you to sleep but you wont wake up feeling grogy hope this helps, oh if you wanted to know im a 21 year old bochur going to learn in EY this coming zman

Thank you for sharing, humble. It was very brave for you to be that honest about yourself, but as I am sure you know, getting out of isolation is certainly almost the very biggest positive step to helping oneself out of this type of situation. I am still mulling over some ideas on how to deal with your particular problem and although I am by no means an expert in this area, I think (or hope) I have certain ideas which may help this very troubling issue, which many of us in this forum, and especially the contributors to this very thread deal with, at least with regards to a certain aspect of, what you are describing.

I will post back soon B'N with some more info.

Wow. This is very eye opening for me. I never realized how much a person could DO while half asleep. The mnost I ever did was act out a little. But it seems that this condition can affect peopke much more significantly. ... I wish you hatzlacha with this issue.