Some one wrote me about this idea:



We might have to have a more parve parallel site, or maybe have the more explicit stuff password protected for those who sign up in the profile page.

This would also solve the worries of Rav Feldman, which are valid. We indeed don't want people without this problem seeing everything on our site.

Im very excited for you, guard. But why all the secrecy?? Are we trying to hide the real truth?? Im not getting it?? :-\

Guard,
in my kutan opinion, you are heading in the right direction. The resources of GYE should be made available to everyone in a
'pareve' way.
k

imtrying25 wrote on 16 Feb 2010 12:53:


No, the idea is to expand GYE to be able to help the non-addicted as well.  The expanded GYE will, IY"H, be "the real truth."

As I've mentioned before, the line between addict and non-addict is rather narrow, particularly in this area. See my notes on SE's thread, or just google "DSM" and "substance dependence" and "abuse" (the DSM-IV doesn't use the term "addiction).

Pretty much anyone who's gotten involved in this stuff would seem to meet the criteria, or at leats comes close (though a true diagnosis needs a trained practitioner).

Rage ATM wrote on 16 Feb 2010 16:03:


The idea is, that if you want the ADDICTS throughout the Jewish world to hear about us and get the help they need, GYE needs to be a LOT MORE promoted, advertised and backed - and more in the public's consciousness. And for that to happen, we need to "dress it up" on the outside as something more "parve", with the 'help for addicts' as something that is not "talked about" as much, but will still be found by those who need it.

It sounds like your trying to distinguish between people that struggle with "just" occassional looking and those with more serious out of control "addiction" issues.  (I would love to read more about this issue if it has been discussed on this blog).  GYE seems more geared toward the latter, however the velt would probably be more confortable with a site that simplly assists us with Shmiras haenayim. 

I think your trying to say is launch a site with a Shmiras Haenyaim motto as its Public image, but with the ability to refer those in further need to a more detailed site such as GUE?

guardureyes wrote on 16 Feb 2010 16:45:


In other words, there should be a GYE that follows the model of the Shemiras Einayim Chizuk e-mails.

www.koshereyes.com




in the words of Guard himself


It's about time that his 'little project' got alittle bigger. Nu guard?

I guess i got on the wrong train today cuz its still not sinking in!!!

imtrying25 wrote on 16 Feb 2010 21:23:


The reality is that you would not want to let your 8 year old brother read through....for example the facts page of GUE.com . It will teach him all about M_____ and how to hide it. He will learn the details of tash*** Ha****, and way too much about SSA, chatrooms, etc.    Alittle information can go a long way, in addition to teaching kids to get around filters.

No you would not want  this website featured as the front page of mishpacha!! Thousands of innocent yiddin will open-up a wormhole to a world they had never know, or heard of (thanks to the lack of coverage given). All we want is a safe meathod of letting EVERYONE who needs it, find us! And to do that we must balance the need for both secrecy, AND publicity.  ANd by having a paralel program, which can be fully open to the public, we can provide the neccesary guidance to those who DO need us.  And even before such an organisation is launched, we can accomplish that very same goal, by contacting rabbanim and mechanchim. Please help me do so, by reponding to the thread I put-up in 'break free'. And we all must daven for Kedusha to have continued hatzlacha in his efforts to aquire more haskamos! (and to all those anonomys shlichim of GYE)

Do you mean to say that the majority of teenagers today aren't involved in mz"l?

You got me.   But should the girls be reading that website. Personaly, if I ever read a girls site about that....let's just say that....let's not say. *rage* This site could easily be stimulating, to someone who never knew abput any of this. Not everyone should be reading this, although morst people would have some toeles from many aspects of this program.

Just because they touch themselves in a locked room, doesn't mean they know of the many ways to stimulate their Y"H, and enhance their habbit.  THEY don't need GYE, although they DO need a dressed-up version of the 12 steps. Mybe someone, other than GUARD, should complile the torahdik sources to every one of the 12 steps, and write a kuntrus on it. Keep it 100% kosher.  On the other hand, there has to be one. I do remember seeing a small musar seffer written for bar mitva bachurim, and it covered all these inyanim, in a very descrete, yet thurough manner. knowing alittle about EY, I would venture to guess that there are another 20 sefarim like it.

I'd like to see it, if you can get ahold of it..

rage, I edited it for you.

OK I still have to think of a way to present the argument, but I do see why it is innappropriate for EVERYONE to be reading this site. 'Pas Nisht', and although I may not have the words to express it, there is a sound and solid basis to judging with one's hergeishim...if he is enough in-tune with his neshama.  

I am starting to get the feeling that our understanding of this pressing issue, is blinding our sensitivities to tznius and harchakos me'arayos. Does anyone remember kedusha's thread, bashing a book that advises to tell your abr mitzva bachur, in full detail "how" babies 'come from'. The issue of sheltering [our] children from the world today, with all the n--ty and advertisements that they WILL see, depends on much they truly have been sheltered.

If you kids watch TV, they will learn how to have chidlren of their own, even before bodies are capable of creating zera!! In such a case..the birds and bees are way too vague, you will need to tell him that _a_  _b_ and _c_ is ASSUR to do, even though everyone his age on TV is doing it (obviosly use sechel in doing so). But for whatever children have been thankfully sheltered from the blatant anuz of the outside world, they need to be guided in a manner that provides both an 'informed' standpoint and an understanding of how to deal with their newfound tayvos, while maintaining the delicate balance of tznius and not leading them to hirhurim.  Again, one must be honest with himself about the exposure they will get from their freinds at school. Even if you have no TV, mybe they will watch TV/movies at a freinds house. What about the ads on the city-bus? How sheltered will they truly be?

  For children who are assured to never be exposed to a single zonah, ad, newsstand, shikdah, cleaninglady, cashier, city-bus, subway, plane, tv screen, ipod, blackberry, laptop, magazine, or anything else of the modern world. They will B"H be easily accepted to the top chedarim of meah Shearim, without any fear of ever discovering technology ("hafla vaphelah, movable type!!" "tatty what is internet?  yankeleh it's the gematria of Sartan") But even so, they will learn the details of female anatomy (dam besulim), the derech of tashmish kihilchaso, the concept of zev-keri-dam, naArah hamiorasa, shlosha nashim meshamshim bi**** (hamaivin yavin), Ha'arah koneh biyevama, and many more such 'touchy' sugyos. SO even they will need to be guided in a torahdik approach to dealing with their tayvas nashim.

AS I have told my campers on countless ocassions (13-14 rys old), "If you aren't attracted to girls, you need to see a doctor, there is something very wrong with you. That's supposed to happen in every boy your age, and if it hasn't then you must see a Urologist! What to do about it, is another story."

How on earth can a person feel that every single jew, regarless of their exposure, needs GYE? Yes we definitely can help them at their level, however we need to do it with 'abisle' seichel. We are poinereing a new movement in klal wisrael, and GUARD is noteil schar kulam (kedush too for collecting haskamos). However we must exhibit restraint in our desire to help fellow yidden. Hopefully most people who watch p--- are not yet qualified to be deemed addicts, and we can save them by merely installing a filter=monitoring software. We need an approach for every level of this Yetzer Hara, and machala. And in-order to provide the propper 'dosage', it may require additional sites and precautionary measures.

BTW try googleing GYE every time you want to open the site. I have been doing it for a while, and GYE now come-up as one of the first 5 choices to the various search terms I try. This way the true addicts will be able to find us... bederech Kataigor NaAseh Saneigor.