vehkam wrote on 27 Jun 2024 18:35:

The frum word's response to the internet was slow and rocky. The response to the problems caused by the internet was slower and rockier.  Bachurim always had teenage drives (see the teshuva from the chasam sofer(?) about the yeshiva bachur who had an affair with the wife of the family hosting him) but it's gone from having to put in effort to get erotic content to having to put in effort to avoid it. And of course that's had an effect on the whole avir in the yeshivos.

GYE has an article from 2011 about meeting with Torah Umesorah. I wonder what came of that.

Don't want to keep on beating the dead horse about awareness, but specifically when it comes to bachurim, probably in the last 25 years the numbers of bachurim who have seen erotic imagery of some flavor went from low to the vast majority. I don't want to make a wild guess about the intensity of bachurim's struggle with masturbation, but it probably went up along with that. Not porn addicts - normal bochurim dealing with normal bochur tayvos. And it seems like yeshivos for a long time were stuck in a mindset from a previous generation (where porn was something unusual) that is misaligned with the problem.

It's a delicate issue. I suspect it doesn't help much to say porn is filth and shouldn't be discussed if most bochurim already have been exposed. And overcorrecting and saying porn is normal will just ensure all bochurim are exposed. And there's so much shame, guilt, teenage hormones, and delicate personal issues that it's hard to deal with even one on one. And many rabbeim either never struggled or still struggle and either way can't relate in a helpful way. So it's rough.

That being said, I think preventative awareness is probably the biggest place the frum community is making progress in this area. It's now normal in many institutions to require parents to have a filter, it's becoming more normal to have a preventative "talk" with younger boys (From Boys To Men would not have been published 25 yrs ago probably), and yeshivas are wrapping around to being able to say that the problem is not just "movies" or "internet", its "porn". Of course there's more to do. But this is where there's progress.

Less progress seems to be being made for people currently struggling. Just my thoughts with no real experience or proof.

chosemyshem wrote on 27 Jun 2024 19:09:

Progress has been made regarding filters etc.  most people will still be exposed at some point.  The world is extremely sexualized.  Properly teaching how to deal with the feelings that come from being surrounded by this seduction as well as teaching how to get up when you fall has not had nearly as much or enough emphasis. Many yeshivishe rabbonim never speak about it at all.  Some rebbeim and rabbonim have a good mehalech but many have no clue.  The goal is to educate and centralize the resources that work.

Sefer HaTanya begins with the Rebbe saying that it should be something that one learns from their Rebbi. But there are too many talmidim to know each one as well as he should, and the problem is only getting worse, so he writes the sefer to "take his place" because that is at least better than nothing for the masses. 
How many people today have a Rebbi, one that they are close to for years and is close like a father, their guiding light and inspiration, their understanding and loving confidant? Probably rare and much less than it should be. Most school systems today don't support this relationship. Every year is a new Rebbi, and our mechanechim are busy. Much effort needs to be put in to interject yourself into their busy schedule. Everyone is so busy. 

It's not just these issues that a Rebbi could help with, it's with life in general. What is valuable and meaningful? What is a real Ben Torah life? What is shalom bayis and intimacy really supposed to be? 

Steep cliffs and slippery slopes abound, but we have few anchors. We're storming the beach at Normandy and hey, at least some people seem to make it through more or less alive. We need to stop playing the numbers game if there's any hope to save the majority. The losses we suffer are too great when we just keep throwing everyone through the system and hoping for the best. We're killing them. Why do we do it? Because we don't know what else to do. We're too scared to face the reality of how far off course we ended up.

I'm a nobody who really knows nothing about anything, though it seems to me that if you project our current path, the system as a whole is not sustainable. We need trailblazers to keep pushing these small victories of change. We need leaders to keep acknowledging and supporting what it takes to be a healthy Torah yid in today's world - and in general.

Sorry not sorry for the depressing outlook, but (yes, I'm going to quote the Lorax) "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better.It's not."

Answers I do not have. But care? We can all care. If we care enough, we can at least try to make things better. 

Love you all!

Cmiiw, I think we have a few threads discussing the same topic, how to share and educate the Rabanim and Rebbeim to better help their congregants and students in their challenges of kedusha.

Involved in that is what is the actual solution, tool, resource we want to share. GYE, a friendly and safe support?

What about making The Battle of the Generation required reading and not taboo? That helps ppl have the pleasure of overcoming. And sharing the knowledge to the youth that their issue is normal, common, healthy etc.? And Hashem loves you! And get filters to avoid fatally slippery slopes. And potentially explain the true perspective of intimacy and sex in marriage vs. Lust.

Are these the main things we want to spread?

Agav, just thinking back and some old memories hit me. We tell them it is common etc. but how do we deal with the mekoros that this ?
And what is the truth? How do we explain, and first understand, the nuance to balance this dichotomy?

How about if a bunch of people here would share The Battle of the Generation with their Rebbe or a Rabbi they know? If they are not comfortable speaking personally about it, they could slip it in the Rav's shtender or desk with a short typed letter, something like "Of course Rebbe knows that many people are struggling, and I found this book very helpful and at the same time extremely clean, that no one would learn anything bad they don't know. It really helps get our attitude right for this struggle. Maybe Rebbe could read it and it could be something Rebbe could recommend or incorporate the messages into Rebbe's talks." (Or something better written by someone who writes better. Or one of the letters to rebbeim going around on other threads.)

Day 2 had a fall two days ago.

Wow pretty cool having so much going on in my humble thread, fixing the system and the worlds problems.

I’m no big deyah zoger but in my experience in yeshiva this topic used to be totally taboo but recently it’s been a little more spoken about but definitely not in detail. When I told a rebbi that I had a problem I was looking up pictures on a flip phone almost every day constantly making hachlatas to stop and it never worked…

and I was hoping to open up and figure out what’s wrong with me and how to fix it. he told me it’s a problem that a lot of bucherim have and he’s very impressed with my courage to call him etc. and for practical steps he said to get rid of the phone and get one with a filter.

I was pretty  upset cuz he kinda brushed it off saying get a new phone it’ll be ok. I knew in my heart I get a new phone but I was thinking I will stil be wanting and waiting for the moments that I have an unfiltered device. (Which whenever I had access I would fall even though each time I made hachlatas to not do it again…)

I’m not saying we shouldn’t tell bucherim that a lot of bucherim have this problem so don’t feel guilty etc.. but I feel like a solution or a proper way to deal with the issue isn’t offered. If a bucher in yeshiva had an issue of having really smelly feet would the rebbi tell him to get new socks and move on or would he say go figure out what’s wrong get some spray and fix it. I think same is here I was told everyone has the problem and do x y x but left with the feeling that a filter is a Bandaid or even a challenge and essentially without a filter there was no way I can live a life not watching porn all day. I still don’t know exactly the solution and I don’t have it under control at all yet. But Hashgacha pratis it’s on my thread so I’m sharing.

Captain wrote on 28 Jun 2024 12:10:

(Sorry to keep derailing your thread @funbucher, and just one more thought on this topic and then I'll move on with life.)

I was thinking about this truly excellent suggestion over shabbos. It doesn't have to be limited to dropping off a physical copy of the book. I think it would be very powerful if a Rav/Rabbi/Rebbe got a personal email from a shul member/talmid explaining his story, giving over the shameful pain of suffering in silence, and explaining how GYE helps (and perhaps linking to some of the educational material on the site and/or the TBOTG ebook).

I think it could even be done anonymously. If you're careful to leave out the precise identifying details of your story, you can send it from a disposable email address. Even done anonymously, as eerie pointed out in a different thread, the personal nature of the email would no doubt have an effect.

Just a thought. It's a small thing, but very easy to do, and who knows what effect it could have.

Day 4 
Still didn’t build up the courage to call anyone. 
After this whole side topic of what rebbis should talk abt or not shoulda coulda woulda. I’m very happy and grateful that I found this site a lot of people who know the struggle and are willing to help, discuss and encourage. I don’t know what my perception on myself or the struggle would be. 
Not done yet but in the journey 

Day 5 
going well. Had some urges but no way to get around filter. 

That is why it is so important to have a good filter!

Heeling wrote on 16 Jun 2024 17:04:

A lot has happened since we made our deal on June 16 with one exception - you didn't give up!

Yes, you had some falls in the last 3 weeks but every fall was followed with a 'pickup' and that is what is so amazing about you! You simply dont give up! Keep fighting my dear friend, its tough, its blah, its exhausting, but nonetheless rewarding after all!

So dear brother, remember NEVER EVER to look back, becuase your not going that way - always look forward! There a ton of opportunities ahead of us.

Keep plowing!

Day 6 
Still having urges. Not gonna put to much focus On them hopefully they will pass. 

Day 8 
past couple days I’ve randomly have Been having urges and ideas of how to fall… I haven’t fallen but I feel like it’s incoming I’m waiting for the urges to pass but even if they do they only leave for a bit and randomly come back. 
hoping I can pull thru this stretch till it gets easier. 

Hey! Hang in there.

Do you do the F2F program? Did you ever try using the SOS feature?

Take some deep breaths, focus on productive things, smile, and plow on!! 

When you get passed this you will see how easy it was, looking back. It is very difficult to overcome because we think we can not overcome it and it will eventually make us fall.

Once you do get past this successfully BEH, you will be much stronger in life, knowing you got this!

But there are many tools. I personally like the BOTG mehalech - as interesting, enticing pleasure it is to consider the taavos, fantasies, machshavos raos etc. - the pleasure of overcoming it - which means you are strong and smart, and want to be a great person, and will succeed in life - is so much greater! You get so much great pleasure right now! Hold your chin up, feel good about yourself!

So it is not a choice of getting pleasure vs. suffering, missing the pleasure, but getting something intangible after 120.
It is getting fleeting, imaginary pleasure vs. getting more pleasure right now!

Hatzlacha, Warrior!