Hakolhevel wrote on 23 Jun 2017 04:32:

Just wanted to clarify, I'm not saying it doesn't work, rather it doesn't work for me... Hope I didn't come off to harsh

Hakolhevel wrote on 27 Jun 2017 02:50:


Can you elaborate on this concept?
Please explain how you are not living life when you act out.
Thanks.

Shteeble wrote on 27 Jun 2017 12:58:

Great question Shteeble, and good to see you here again. Hope to see you more often

Anyway in response, have you ever heard the statement "master of all trades jack of none" that's what it's like when i act out, I am obviously not living my real life, and I am not engaged in it either, constantly thinking about my next fix. Or spending my time fighting my next fix

And I am also not living my virtual life, it's all @ 3 am when my wife is deep asleep.

Living a double life in my books is death. It has nothing to do with porn/masturbation being a sin, it has to do with the double life. unlike other sins where I slip up, they are not a double life, they are to be expected and more importantly not connected to a whole load of lying.

So again in conclusion, what drives me to change is not the cost benefit analysis (it doesn't feel good anyway... I feel guilty afterwards) it's reminding myself that I'm not living life when I act out.

Makes sense? Relate?

Hakolhevel wrote on 02 Jul 2017 02:44:

Makes sense.
I don't relate.
But it makes sense.
well...
actually, I don't think I understand it.
I believe you 100% that this is how you experience it
but I don't get it.
Maybe it's different for different people.
​Or maybe I'm just missing something.

For me, it's all about the sin.
And any sin, in my book, would seem like a double life...
loshon hara, talking during davening, stealing, eating on yom kippur
and pretty much any aveiroh I can think of...

So what specifically about THIS make it a double life, where it's not about the aveiroh,
but rather about the death of living a double life?

Again, I believe you. I'm just trying to learn from you.
Thanks. And thanks for the kind words too.

If everyone around me where angels and I would be doing those sins you mentioned you might be correct, however I live in this world with imperfect human beings.

So in the world I live I don't hide the fact that I have spoken loshon hara, or if I talk during davening. Most importantly I don't say lie upon lie to cover over what I am doing.

Your correct if it wasn't a sin it would not be a double life because everyone would be doing it and there would be no problem with it, or even if I was the only one doing it and there was no problem with it, I would not be leading a double life.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the double life is the killer, it happens to be that because it's a sin that is why it's a double life for me. But it being a sin is not what's stopping me from continuing. it's the double life which = death. 

Now you might ask if it's just the double life that bothers me what stops me from indulging just a little like I do by other sins. The answer is because this is different, here I cannot just indulge a little, the moment I let my gaurd down and take a peak at a revealing photo, I will spiral totally out of control and be a slave to my lust.

As an aside, even lusting after my wife which is allowed, I can't handle, because I can't just lust after my wife, although I will admit it won't as quikly spill over to other lust.

Just to clarify. Any type of reason don't help during an actual lust attack. That is just what drives me to do the right things.

What it's required is surrender - and a few tricks up your sleeve don't hurt.

Just to be clear what do you mean by tricks?

I call them tricks, you may call them tips. you will find loads of them.

Everyone finds what works for them, it may be leaving your phone out of your bedroom at night to avoid confrontation with temptation, it may be (and is probably the best) calling a friend/wife/random stranger and the list goes on. 

My experience was that if you work your recovery the need for tricks become less as time goes on.

Any trick that involves my will, like say, leave a shiur on when i am going to sleep so that i will be distracted, doesnt work for me. I am powerless. I need God's help. There are many recovery tools that i need but they dont exactly revolve around removing the temptation. For example: doing inventories or meditating or calling my sponsor. 

When i feel that i am lusting definitely getting it out into the light helps and also i am being honest so that does cool the temptation and lust but unless i figure out what exactly is wrong: fear, anger, another lust is waiting right around the corner. 

Tricks sound to me like i am using my will. I am an addict. My will doesnt help. Maybe you or others tricks work. That could be all you need, i need a whole emotional, spiritual upheaval to help me recover. 

When i work my program, i do not get tempted. Its a nes, an incredible miracle.

Do not stop at go. do not collect 200. keep on trucking one mile at a time.

For those who don't know it don't go looking it up. But I take it the song "tomorrow" would kinda be there antithesis of gye thinking.

I was thinking if it today as I am going thru a stressful time right now ( which may have caused my fall) and I find myself thinking of the song in which the message is tomorrow will be better.

But I think that we have to learn to live with the life we have today, despite it's problems and not just say, "well there is always tomorrow that will be brighter and better..."

So true. (today, this moment, is really all that we got)

"Regret is living in the past, anxiety is living in the future. Serenity is living in the present." (emphasis on "living" ) 

Hatzlacha Rabba!! Take it One DAY at a time!! 

 

I was listening to a recorded dov call this morning and he mentioned in passing the difference between selfish and self absorbed.

I had never thought of it that way, but it made me realize how self absorbed I am. Anyone know of another recording/post where dov or anyone else delves deeper into the subject?

As much as I hate to admit it, I have come to the realization (for me at least) that 100% honesty will not happen here. Not to say that I or others are lying, rather there are too many details and each case is unique. So unless I where to write pages and pages, you will never get the entire story. And even then I'm not sure. Particularly since I can't share certain personal details on this annonymous forum.

That being said the forum is still a incredible tool!

So talk to someone real