Steve wrote on 25 Feb 2010 16:33:


I preffer the mashal "shades of grey". Colors are an entity onto itself. And even if the 'color' of tzaddikim was to be white, which is in truth a complete spectrum of colors, fused together. Still, that would means that each color in itself lacks 6 fundemental aspects of a total torah structure.          I preffer the "shades of grey" in that there is only one level of tzidkus. Recognised by all, in their personal level of growth, all striving for that same completion, and putting an emphasis on where they have started and where they are holding. Each level of the spectrum follows one G-D and one TORAH, and merely differ in their starting point. But everyone accepts a single purpose and goal.

I know you meant that, but I am in the middle of an ongoing nissayon, so I figured that getting phylosophical was a better idea than posting KUTGW  and KOT to every new post.

Well, TOF, you are about to be introduced to a common vice we here at GYE have, which is called "thread hijacking," where others go off on a tangent at your thread's expense... SORRY ABOUT THIS, but it is VERY nogeiyah b'mashul.


shemirateinayim wrote on 25 Feb 2010 17:00:



Yes, ONE G-D and ONE TORAH, but you don't negate the individual parts because they are "fundamentally lacking the aspect" of being the whole.

Proof of this is the fact that we have 3 AVOS, each one was a tzaddik, but each one served Hashem ALSO out of their Unique character, which is their individual color. Yitchak was more introspective and concentrated more on self improvement and perfection of one Holy Family, while Avraham was more into "outreach." did Avraham think that Yitzchak was off the derech cuz he didn't follow exactly in his father's footsteps? Hashem's seal of approval is that Yitzchak was a unique and definable AV unto himself. It's only in combo with the other Avos, however, that he built up the spiritual foundation of Klal Yisroel.

There's a REASON why Hashem made it that WHITE, which is the color of purity, is really a PHYSICAL combination of all the colors of the rainbow/spectrum. The very different COLORS do not cancel each other out, but combine like instruments in a symphony orchestra to make a beautiful opus which is a ONE, even tho if you concentrate you can pick out the individual instruments. And sometimes one has a solo, or takes the lead while the others ALLOW it to come forward.

True, if the COLORS were self-centered they would remain "entities to themselves," but when working with others and giving and getting respect for the unique qualities of each hue, they can combine in new and surprising ways, with results that are beautiful like the original colors.

"Shades of grey" doesn't cut the mustard. That implies limitation, and is actually a neglect of the tiferes that Hashem created the world with. Klal Yisroel is not made up of kollels only. We are KEHILLOS, workers, learners, rebbes, teachers, counselors and the counseled, FFB's and Baalei Teshuva, Reds, Blues, Greens, Yellows, Pinks, Purples, etc. Our differences are BEAUTIFUL, exciting and colorful, not drab and dreary shades of imperfection.

So even tho there is always room for growth, TOF and the rest of us can CELEBRATE our different levels of Yiddishkeit as part of the collective whole. We are all moving and growing, hopefully building a closer relationship with Hashem and also growing in Torah and Yiras Shomayim. We are each changing our "hue, saturation and brightness" based on our individual struggles, and thru inspiration of those we meet here and elsewhere, but anytime you take a "freeze-frame" snap shot of Klal Yisroel, the total picture is beautiful.

Nuff said. TOF, sorry about that, but I respect every Yid no matter where he's "holding", and I pray that we all continue to be inspired to grow in Torah and Yiras Shomayim. And I hope and pray you will find a Rav who, by feeling the same way, will garner your trust.

Have a GREAT SHABBOS, and a Freilachen Purim!!

OK, guys - back! Back!

Hi TOF! Welcome! This forum is a great part of improving ourselves. It's helped me grow in ways I never dreamed of.

It's incredible that you're here, and trying to work on this issue - you should be proud of yourself! Everyone needs to take things at their own pace, but for me, opening up and posting about my struggles, my emotions, and what was happening in my life, helped me a lot.

As far s your girlfriend...I'm not a rav, and like many others here have already said, that's a question best asked to a rav who knows you well. However, I would like to make a few points. 1) No one is advocating breaking up. Even Guard - what has been suggested is that you give each other some distance. And if things still seem right after you get that distance, then go for it! I don't know what community you're part of, but after a break to clean both of your heads, maybe consider getting married, if she's that special.

2) Having a girlfriend that you're shomer negiah with is just a tough situation all around. Obviously, you're physically attracted to her, but you can't actually do anything with her, so that's going to leave you feeling very sexually stifled.

3) If this relationship is hurting you spiritually, then you need some distance right away - especially because, if spirituality is important to you (and clearly, it is), how will you feel looking back on this relationship, and seeing how it pulled you down?

4) Sometimes, when we get very attached to someone, there are all kinds of emotions pulling us in different directions - "I want her," "I need her," "I'll never find anyone as special as her," "how can I hurt her by telling her goodbye (especially after we just did x,y, and z)," etc. It's extremely complex (and that's why a rav is helpful) - but at the end of the day, you've already seen that this relationship is going places you don't want it to go. It's not just dangerous - the danger has already hurt both of you!

5) Hopefully, if you explain it in the right way, she'll respect your desire to get clarity in this situation, and appreciate you all the more for it. And if she doesn't - then maybe she doesn't deserve you.

We're here for you, no matter what - keep posting, and rock on!

Welcome to the board.  I just want to welcome you.  The best thing you can do is take it slow and stay as positive.  We are all here for you and keep on posting away!

Hi, TiredofFalling...

My personal opinion is that your question is very tough to answer in a generic way...

The answer of what to do really depends totally on the individual circumstances...

Also if you do ask a Rov it is very very important to give as much background info as you can (i.e. how difficult it will be to separate, how much you really want to, etc.)

A generic question gets a generic answer. My personal experience is that Rabbonim/ Rosh Yeshivos/ etc. give very different answers if they are made aware of the full background of the issue....

P.s. The advice to totally separate for a few weeks and then get back together may have the danger of causing the opposite effect (it may cause your reunion to be all the more arousing...)

Just some food for thought....

Good Luck... We are Rooting for you!!!

Just in case anyone is in doubt, I wanted to remind you all that I am EXTREMELY grateful for all of your help and input, and that you actually care about my difficulties.
I've talked to different Rabbanim on the issue with my girlfriend (before we messed up), and they were very helpful, but somehow I didn't feel entirely satisfied with what they told me. I feel like I couldn't express to them how bad the situation really was, because i was too embarrassed to tell them that on top of all my girlfriend issues I am dealing with an addiction to p**n. What I really like about this forum is that its totally anonymous and I can open up more fully.
Should I confess everything to a Rav? If that's what it takes I might be able to muster up the courage. I'm not quite sure yet though.
Thanks again to everybody!
TOF

[iurl=http://www.guardyoureyes.org/?p=1978/]Read this....

TiredOfFalling wrote on 25 Feb 2010 23:03:


ToF, we do care about you...

I've been in that spot G-d knows how many times...

In life we sometimes gotta just throw all we've got (and even what we don't got ) into taking that huge huge impossible leap that we need in order to move forward...

I've taken this 'hold no prisoners' approach many times, with life altering (literally) results...

Although In my case I find that to take this approach (going beyond what you are capable of: disregarding your real limitations...) is only good for something that is a one time leap that can change everything (You know like for example that terribly unpleasant conversation you could have with "blank" that will turn everything around, but you'd prefer to die not to have to do it... Hope U guys follow me here...)
You (or I should say I) can't do this on a day to day basis, though.

So if you are approaching the right Rov it may be worth the effort. It can be very liberating to get the guidance/advice you know is right....

But as a friend of mine, Please be sure you are opening up to the right Rabbi (Will understand, has dealt with this, etc.)...

We are with you on this... Rooting for you... And praying that you -rather we- get through all of this...

Peace and Love my holy Bro....

Glad that I can be here - you deserve people by your side, you're standing up and fighting an incredible battle!

As far as going to a rebbe - I agree with Trying123, make sure it's the right rebbe. But then - absolutely. Anytime I've opened up to my rebbe, I've gained tremendously from it, even though it might've been difficult/embarrassing at the time.

With these issues, he found out somehow without me telling him - and I'm so glad he did (even though I was horrified when he told me). I've been wondering why i deserved  to have him find out, what zchus I had. Thinking about it now, I wonder if it's midah k'neged midah, since i went out on a limb other times to tell him things that were difficult for me, and made him my rebbe by doing so...that would be nice! 

You can ask halachic questions anonymously on-line over here: www.guardyoureyes.org/?p=1997

I also suggest reading this article from Aish I just saw yesterday: www.aish.com/h/pur/t/dt/84437142.html

Hi. Thanks for all your help.
It's purim right now.
Thank you to the gye admin, I read the article on Aish.com.
For those of you who didn't read it there was a guy whose gilrfriend broke up with him and he was so depressed that he wanted to commit suicide, but his Rabbi comforted him, and later the guy said that it was all for the best.
I kinda feel like that guy. I tried to break up with my girlfriend a few times but it was too hard. I messed up on shomer negia again. there are so many things about this relationship that are really hurting me, but theres a part of me that says I can and have to work it out, because I care about her so much.  But at the same time it hurts too much and i don't know if i can deal with it anymore.
I think I fell in love with this girl. Hard.
I don't feel like anything's gonna be ok right now.
On a lighter note, I installed the K9 filter on my computer. Thank G-d there's one less issue ripping my life apart. This time I won't try to bypass the filter (bli neder).
TOF

Way to go Brother....

Purim is said to be a day that no prayers go unanswered....

I'll have you in mind.....

Re. Girlfriend I appreciate how conflicting it is....
I am with you in the struggle....

Also I know that you are in a place many others have been in...

I suspect that a solid Frum Therapist (or an experienced Rabbi) with the proper experience in this arena, will most likely have some answers, and should be able to walk you through this...

Peace and Love My Holy Brother...

Whatever happened with her?

I know what ur going thru it sucks I feel like this hell will never end keep up the fight 

I've fallen hard. Many times.....