Just to clarify a point which I think you mean as well, R' Bright. (By the way I appreciate your rawness.)

Religious OCD is a feeling of a never ending sheer nightmare.
For me it included waking up in middle of the night in cold sweats and always thinking I had made something treif and I owe someone money and Im going to hell or coming back as a cat. Imagine feeling that - in a very real way - throughout the day. 
It's hell on earth.
Thank Hashem I'm on the other side now but this is an incredibly painful expirience - not just about doing mitzvos right or building pisom v'rameses - but the (constant) fear of frying in hell, the fear of coming back as a gilgul, and the fear that your marriage or divorce wasn't correct halachically. These are real life examples, not theoretical posibilities. It is sheer tourture and I have not heard anyone belittle it or rank it low on the mental health totem pole, but someone that does has no clue what they are talking about. (BH for that )
It can basically reduce a person to often curling in a fetal position in fright (when no one is looking) and feeling nauseous and about to pass out. And being productive? Forget about that. 
The good news is that therapy is incredibly effective, especially if caught early on. For some, medication helps/compliments as well. 
It is very treatable, but you gotta get help. ASAP.

trueme wrote on 12 Jun 2025 12:20:

Thanks, really appreciate the kind words.
In regards to the anonymous forum, 100%, it would be enormously beneficial for so many silently suffering if there was a way to anonymously get help (although wouldn't limit it to OCD only, could be extended to all mental health struggles that affect Yiddishkeit). But practically speaking, it starts with the recognition of the problem from those who Chasdei Hashem are NOT struggling. We live in an absolutely insane world. Religious OCD, as TrueMe so accurately and painfully described, is just one of the many examples of how Klal Yisrael on the whole is living in such unprecedentedly difficult times. Chasdei Hashem, the awareness of the mental health struggles so many face--especially in the Frum world, where it silently destroys so many רחמנא לצלן--has grown enormously. It would be amazing if your idea (anonymous forum) and Bright's idea which began this thread (the link between therapist and Rebbi) could be combined, if there could be something like an Amudim-esque platform for mental health in the Frum world.
On a slight tangent relating to the last couple of posts--can you imagine the זכותים that Tzaddikim like R' Dovid Trenk ZT"L and yblct"a R' Daniel Kalish, R' Shimon Russel and others have earned? What they have done for countless individuals, families and כלל ישראל? The מסירות נפש, love and devotion they've displayed (and, in the latter ones' cases, should continue to have the opportunity to display לאורך ימים ושנים טובים) towards those in כלל ישראל struggling in so many different areas, with so much pain, suffering and depression, is the definition of מי כעמך ישראל.
B"H, the awareness of the need for patience, love and genuine understanding, and the recognition that at no point in history has the entire כלל ישראל been surrounded by such filth, garbage and depravity, by a world that is the antithesis of everything it means to be a Yid, living, in the words of the Chofetz Chaim, "with the Yetzer Hara at their fingertips" (literally!), has heightened enormously, and has been tremendously beneficial for so many younger Yidden who now have a support system to help them grow. It should only increase and improve, BE"H.

Wow! Just went through this thread for the first time. Very touching and moving how you were able to get through those tough times and make the most out of the whole journey!

I don't want to comment to much on the Hashkafa aspect that you are talking about whether or not what's being preached in Litvish yeshivas needs to be taught in a diffetent way for our generation - I can't make any comments on that because I don't come from that enviroment and therefore can't make such an assesment.

What I would like to share is that Rav Kook writes a ton about the fact that Emunah wasn't learnt enough on a high level as much all other parts of the Torah. He states that this will cause big problems also in his generation and more so in future generations where people are extremely desperate for a much deeper understanding of Hashem and if they aren't getting that higher understanding it will cause a lot of problems, one of which I think you yourself described incredibly here. He explains that this is also part of the reason for kefira in our generation, on one hand because people couldn't stand the basic understanding of Hashem in terms of Master - servant, they went off the derech, and on the other hand the kefira is like a mirror to us saying 'we need to imrpove our understanding of Hashem'.

This idea is one of the main ideas Rav Kook talks about in his writings. Don't want to make this to heavy but just thought I'll share one short quote that illustrates the contrast way of looking, the way of looking at things that we don't need to be 'perfect', rather in a state where we are always wanting to move on forwards despite our falls:


Anyway, don't know if this will intrest anyone...but for me I think it was a big part of my journey in life.

I agree. This piece was one of the first pieces I heard from R Kook, and it shook me. The understanding and depth necessary to make such a true prediction is mind-blowing. But unfortunately, the right passeled R Kook already, so it's difficult to use his light to brighten the eyes of those suffering from the maladies he predicted all those years ago. It is tragic.

It’s a beautiful piece, very moving.Very foundational. 
I’ve seen the same or similar ideas in many other Seforim as well. For example, one of my Rabbeim (in a Litvish yeshiva) discussed Rav Hunter’s letter about about שבע יפות צדיק וקם - that the Nefilos are, in fact the pathways to greatness, as he expresses so poignantly in the letter… Rav Yerucham Levivitz in the end of Daas Chochma Umussar has a deep piece on Teshuva that has similar themes, if you understand it well. There’s a lot more, ואכמ״ל

I don’t think that this truth, and others, are locked away from those who haven’t learned Rav Kook’s magnificent work. 

Understanding the beauty of Yiddishkeit and how it provides a pathways in all of life’s travails, in a mature, nuanced way is a life’s work.

So the way I see it is that it’s not necessarily a negative reflection on a Rebbe or a system if a boy developed a two-dimensional, black-and-white view when he was 16, and it took him years to further develop his heart, mind, and vision. Especially if he was fighting with pain, brokenness, and difficulty when he was 16… 

There’s always room for improvement, and there are unfortunately always Rabbeim who can cause terrible harm through their carelessness, callousness, or callowness. But there are many wonderful Rabbeim who shouldn’t be blamed for doing their best job to give a 9th grade the speech that is appropriate for 9th graders to hear, even if perhaps a boy in the class may walk out with some wrong ideas, due to limited understanding and perspective, or due to hearing the speech through the lens of his pain. In truth, if that same 9th grade Rebbe would learn Orot Hateshuva with his class instead of Rabbeinu Yona, there would likely be many boys who would misunderstand the ideas, too. 

Balance, perspective, nuance, and subtlety, maturity, acceptance, growth, and courage- these are precious and hard to find and develop. Here on GYE we have a significant number of people who have achieved some level of these, BH. But I am thinking may be in part because we’ve struggled… 

הרחמן הוא יפתח לבינו בתורתו ויתן בליבנו אהבתו ויראתו וכו וכו 
אכיה״ר, 
מאן דבעי חיים

K'vod Harav Rabbi Bright Shlita!
Please remember to tag me the next time you write such an important, deep, insightful and steering post. 
I agree with you google percent! (Who still remembers that its a number?).

I had the exact same experience, and since i suffered from anxiety my whole life (at least, until now...... ) the fear put into me was exacerbated quite a bit, I never felt loved or 'good enough'. I still remember all the dumb things my rabbis said which quit clearly weren't meant to be told young kids. Talking about very lofty ideas and 'sigufim' like it was a normal thing that everyone is supposed to be doing..... It took me a long time untill I was ready to let go and re-learn everything from a different perspective. And im not done. Its a life long process. 
But, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger, especially spiritually. I see the gap between myself and peers widening. Since I 'had' to re-learn and I  'had' to understand and to feel the love, I got to a much deeper understanding and enjoyment of Yidishkiet. Whereas, others in my circle who weren't effected by their education never 'had' to give it too much thought. 

I have tons more to say on this subject. But I wont steal your thread with my stomachache.......
Thank you for bringing this up and for caring.....

Googol percent.

R' Chaim Shlita
למדנו רבינו
I'll admit that your touched upon a raw nerve, though even beyond that, I'm not completely understanding of what you wrote.
But there are many wonderful Rabbeim who shouldn’t be blamed for doing their best job...

Who decided that their best job, is actually the best job??? ודו"ק 

How many of us ( and how many beyond this forum) have been crushed, destroyed, and hurt by Rebbeim who were doing their best, but in all truth have no place in the world of Chinuch???!!!
They should have either remained in Kollel or found a Parnassa as clerks, garbage men, or any other field that doesn't have the risk of ruining Neshamos! 

Do they know what it means ארור עושה מלאכת ה' רמיה??

Or do they even know that they are עוסק במלאכת ה' at all????!!

Or did they land the Shtellar because they are the " Shpitz" " Meyuchas", or did they look for a position in Chinuch as a means of a Parnassa, without having any concept of what being a Mechanech entails??

I realize I may have gotten carried away, so I pause to apologize.
My wrath is not directed at you, rather it's frustration and pain of a gifted child and teenager that got knocked by the system, that hasn't (yet) completely healed.

speech that is appropriate for 9th graders to hear, even if perhaps a boy in the class may walk out with some wrong ideas, due to limited understanding and perspective, 

This may be up for debate.

Shouldn't a Rebbi know each of his Talmidim individually and be expected to realize if a message may be, or was, misunderstood or received wrong by a Talmid?

I probably wasn't יורד לעומק דעתך, והטעות נמצא בהבנתי. 

With greatest respect
SY

SisonYishecha wrote on 20 Jun 2025 04:11:

I was just about on board until this part. Dont get me wrong, I dream about utopia too, I just dont expect it.

SisonYishecha wrote on 20 Jun 2025 04:11:

We should have a platform for people that this (myself included). I've crept back into the system to fight back with love and care for my talmidim. A quote I once heard: "if you're going to shecht talmidim, just open a shlacthoiz........"

Unfortunately I've encountered such a shochet in my Yeshiva experience, and 25 years later it still hurts......... The only Nechama is that we need to believe that Hashem controls the world and no-one can hurt us without His permission....

SY, next time we meet, we can cry together for those innocent, bright teens hurt by mosdos........

Muttel