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There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory)
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TOPIC: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 892 Views

There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 31 Jul 2023 12:23 #399288

  • shteeble
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Shteeble wrote on 22 Feb 2017 04:34:
#76
Ihavenostrength wrote on 21 Feb 2017 20:11:
Day 11: Ever felt like you needed to release the tension that has been building within you? The longer you've been holding out the more urgent it seems? 

I used to think this was a build up of sexual tension (energy) and if you weren't going to release it through "acting out" you had to find another way to "let it out", if you wanted to stay sane. 

I now think that's a mistake. 

There's a build up of tension all right. It's a neutral tension though. It's created from your worries, your stresses and the bumps you hit in your everyday life. 

There's nothing sexual about it. 

"Acting out" just happens to be a really easy way to release it (and did I mention affordable? Ok don't shoot me, only joking). 

Why does this matter? 

Well firstly, I never so it did, so there! 

I think it does matter a bit though.

For if you feel stressed, feel like you need a release and you recognize that the uncomfortability that you are experiencing has nothing to do with refraining from acting out, it takes away alot of excuses. It shoots just one more arrow into the "I need to" illusion.

Exercising or singing for the addict (I'm not using this word in the clinical sense, just using it for someone who finds it hard not to engage in PMO) are not like soymilk to a non-lactose person. It's not like animal blood for a vampire.(Vampires prefer human blood, they also don't exist).  

Other stress releasers are just as "genuine" as acting out. They require a bit more effort but are more effective as well. 

If you managed to read all that, then you are totally awesome.

Have a great day!

Shteeble wrote on 22 Feb 2017 04:40:



I think you're on to something big here.
I always thought it WAS a buildup of sexual tension...
But you make a strong point.
Can you please continue this train of thought?

Also, I got lost on the Exercising, singing, vampire thing. What was meant in that paragraph? Thanks.



Ihavenostrength wrote on 22 Feb 2017 05:17:
Sure. I think it's a point which we all know to be true but yet aren't fully cognizant of. 

The basic idea is as follows: an alcoholic uses alcohol to deal with the stresses of day to day life. Alcohol is not necessarily the best way (a.k.a most effective method) to release stress. It's merely the method the alcoholic knows. He LEARNT it.

When he has an overwhelming urge to reach for the bottle it's not to release tension that built up as a result of not drinking.

Thr truth is that this argument is perhaps even stronger for a sex addict which a "behavioral" rather than a "substance" addiction.

By the alcoholic it can be argued that it's discomfort resulting from his dependency that he's feeling. 

Although in truth I don't think any thinking person believes that dependency is the whole story. Surely, the primary reason the alcoholic drinks is to escape the (sometimes harsh) realities of life. 

The exercise and vampire paragraph was just bringing this point home.  Vampires prefer human blood. Animal blood is a bad alternative for them. It doesn't really quench their thirst. 

I was saying that good habits and good stress releasers for the sex addict are not like the animal blood for the vampire. 

They are equally legitimate. Good habits like exercising or building connections with people don't just "quiet the need" to lust.

There is no need to lust.

There IS a need not to feel like garbage or ridiculously and constantly stressed. The only way the sex addict knows to feel good or release stress is through lusting. 

He LEARNT it. So now he needs to learn new methods. 

I think this may be quite powerful for some. For if you see "acting out" as the natural way to fight stress, no wonder you'll feel triggered when things are going tough. 

There doesn't have to be a connection between stress and lust. You just taught yourself that there is one.

Peace 




Hope that was somewhat clear. 


Thank you again, Ihavestrength, for this important message.

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 31 Jul 2023 12:48 #399289

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I think that this is very true with regards to a learned behavior that a person developed to use the release, distraction, comfort etc of lust as an "antidote" to stress, anxiety, emotional pain, and/or other psychological and emotional triggers.
However, I am not convinced that there isn't a physiological aspect that can cause somewhat of buildup [see the Rambam  דעות ד יט]. Practically, I don't think it makes any difference.
To my thinking, the critical realization is to internalize deeply the absolute truth - that even though it feels urgent - in fact that is nothing but an illusion. In truth-  NOTHING HAPPENS when you don't act out or fulfill your urges. You don't explode. In fact, as Chazal teach, the only thing that happens by denying yourself is that, in the long run, it gets easier. 
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Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 31 Jul 2023 13:03 #399292

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I hear you.
But is someone is falling regularly due to a buildup of stress,
and he thinks it's a buildup of taivah,
he doesn't realize that there is a solution of finding other ways to relieve the stress.
He thinks he has to relieve the buildup of taivah by giving into the taivah.
If he were to recognize it as a buildup of stress rather than a buildup of taivah,
then he could address the stress in other ways.

Again, if what you're doing is working for you, keep it up. If not, seek additional strategies.

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 31 Jul 2023 13:09 #399293

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Shteeble wrote on 31 Jul 2023 13:03:
I hear you.
But is someone is falling regularly due to a buildup of stress,
and he thinks it's a buildup of taivah,
he doesn't realize that there is a solution of finding other ways to relieve the stress.
He thinks he has to relieve the buildup of taivah by giving into the taivah.
If he were to recognize it as a buildup of stress rather than a buildup of taivah,
then he could address the stress in other ways.

Again, if what you're doing is working for you, keep it up. If not, seek additional strategies.

I totally agree.
My point that there may actually be a concept of a physiological buildup wasn't meant to detract from the danger of falling into the trap you mention. I just find that it isn't always helpful to say things like "there's no such thing as a buildup of sexual tension". For me, it may more sense to say, "don't ,ake the mistake of thinking your learned patterns of dealing with stress or pain are a natural buildup. And even if there is sometimes a natural buildup - the best way to deal with it is to deny it fulfillment." Just my take, for whatever it's worth...
I like your last line the best. We each need to do what works. With Hashems help!!
Thanks, friend!
KOMT
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 31 Jul 2023 16:12 #399296

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Hashem Help Me wrote on 11 May 2021 11:31:
From what you write (and from our conversations) it sounds like you do not have a kedusha issue. BH you have removed pornography from your life, which shows you who are. What you do seem to have is a stress issue. So many of us trained ourselves to use masturbation as a self soothing pacifier. It became our default activity to calm ourselves down. For years, if anything tense came my way, i would masturbate with a vengeance, or better said, with desperation. i knew of no other way to self regulate and calm down. I came out of the mikva the day of my chasuna and masturbated again. I had no other tools. So buddy, calm down. you are an erliche yid who has made an incredible sacrifice. You have given up the thrills and escapes of pornography, and are living a holy life. Masturbation? Iyh you will work on it. With time and training and support you will b'ezras Hashem kick the habit. But realize that you are presently not doing it out of lust or hashchasa. Accept yourself and celebrate how far you have come. Iyh you will build a beautiful holy happy and kosher home.

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 31 Jul 2023 19:12 #399302

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ZemirosShabbos wrote on 03 Jan 2011 16:06:
saw two signs recently which seemed to be 'talking' to me.

one said "Stressed? try kickboxing!" and one said "Forget love, try Lust!".

before you throw dead possums at me let me explain what i mean. stress and discontent (among other things) are what drive us to seek out our preferred drug, be it porn or mastubation or whatnot. when those little voices go off in my head saying, "oh, poor me, i did/did not get this or the other thing and i really need it, the wife/boss/friend made a funny-face at me/insulted me, i have too little money/time/kids/cars/houses/ears whatever... why not go for some relaxation and get some much deserved pleasure..."

that is the voice of addiction, the voice of the yetzer hara, whatever you prefer to call it.

trying to sell me a medication that guarantees that i will never finish the prescription, with life-long refills.

lusting will not make me happy, relaxed or feel accomplished. it will destroy my spark of life and turn me into a shell. a spent shell. it will destroy my connection to Hashem, my wife, my kids, my friends and last but not least, to GYE .

so if i feel stressed, i at least am aware of the fact and know that i need to keep safe and not vent by taking poison. some may prefer kickboxing. some may prefer jogging, origami, or making some new cholint recipe.

and the poor misguided soul who put on that bumper sticker promoting lust did us all a service by showing that love and lust are two distinct items. love gives life, rejuvenates, renews, attaches, connects and leaves you feeling 'good'. lust destroys, uses, empties, disconnects and leaves you feeling like a used pizza box.

so if anyone reading this is the guy who had the lust bumper-sticker or the kickboxing ad, here is my official hat-tip, shkoyach!

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 01 Aug 2023 02:36 #399320

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Thanks for this topic. Though this thread may become quite with no one arguing
My Thread:The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:)

My other Thread: My Daily Inspiration

I'm not a slow learner, I'm just quick to forget" - Eli Nash

A bit of honesty and less over confidence might help me - Imperfection

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 01 Aug 2023 14:05 #399341

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Hakolhevel wrote on 01 Aug 2023 02:36:
Thanks for this topic. Though this thread may become quite with no one arguing

I know he's busy, but maybe @Cordnoy would chime in.
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation 
https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: 
https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/

If you're only ready to try something small, check out an easier way to do self-talk here:
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain—Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 01 Aug 2023 14:51 #399346

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I’d also like to sign the petition to encourage the Return of the Jedi Cordnoy.

By the way- how do you quote a post from a different thread and paste it as a quote into this one? 
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 01 Aug 2023 15:05 #399348

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chaimoigen wrote on 01 Aug 2023 14:51:

By the way- how do you quote a post from a different thread and paste it as a quote into this one? 



1. Open up the post you want to quote.
2. click on quote.
3. click the source button.
4. copy all the text in source mode.
5. go to the thread where you want to post.
6. click reply topic.
7. click the source button.
8. paste in the source text.
9. click the source button again to return to normal.
10. complete your post.
11. copy something else so that you don't accidentally paste gye stuff into a business email or an email to your wife or shvigger.
Last Edit: 01 Aug 2023 15:07 by shteeble.

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 01 Aug 2023 15:06 #399350

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chaimoigen wrote on 01 Aug 2023 14:51:
I’d also like to sign the petition to encourage the Return of the Jedi Cordnoy.

By the way- how do you quote a post from a different thread and paste it as a quote into this one? 

I don't know if there is a high tech way, but the low tech way is to just copy and paste the whole quote formula into the thread you want 
May you slide down the banister of happiness and get many splinters of success up your career

Feel free to send me an owl, a howler, or even a Crumple-Horned Snorkack to Iamredfaced@gmail.com


The Red Face

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 01 Aug 2023 15:06 #399351

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Shteeble wrote on 01 Aug 2023 15:05:
1. Open up the post you want to quote.
2. click on quote.
3. click the source button.
4. copy all the text in source mode.
5. go to the thread where you want to post.
6. click reply topic.
7. click the source button.
8. paste in the source text.
9. click the source button again to return to normal.
10. complete your post.
11. copy something else so that you don't accidentally paste gye stuff into a business email or an email to your wife or shvigger.

step 11 is the only one thats super important
May you slide down the banister of happiness and get many splinters of success up your career

Feel free to send me an owl, a howler, or even a Crumple-Horned Snorkack to Iamredfaced@gmail.com


The Red Face

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 01 Aug 2023 16:15 #399357

Shteeble wrote on 01 Aug 2023 15:05:

11. copy something else so that you don't accidentally paste gye stuff into a business email or an email to your wife or shvigger.

Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 02 Aug 2023 02:06 #399379

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redfaced wrote on 01 Aug 2023 15:06:

Shteeble wrote on 01 Aug 2023 15:05:
1. Open up the post you want to quote.
2. click on quote.
3. click the source button.
4. copy all the text in source mode.
5. go to the thread where you want to post.
6. click reply topic.
7. click the source button.
8. paste in the source text.
9. click the source button again to return to normal.
10. complete your post.
11. copy something else so that you don't accidentally paste gye stuff into a business email or an email to your wife or shvigger.

step 11 is the only one thats super important

That’s your opinion. 

Look, you chose that username, so you knew you were asking for trouble
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Re: There is NO buildup of taivah, rather... (theory) 02 Aug 2023 15:57 #399393

Markz wrote on 02 Aug 2023 02:06:

redfaced wrote on 01 Aug 2023 15:06:

Shteeble wrote on 01 Aug 2023 15:05:
1. Open up the post you want to quote.
2. click on quote.
3. click the source button.
4. copy all the text in source mode.
5. go to the thread where you want to post.
6. click reply topic.
7. click the source button.
8. paste in the source text.
9. click the source button again to return to normal.
10. complete your post.
11. copy something else so that you don't accidentally paste gye stuff into a business email or an email to your wife or shvigger.

step 11 is the only one thats super important

That’s your opinion. 

Look, you chose that username, so you knew you were asking for trouble

Now let's hope the strikethrough won't mess up Trouble's radar.
We get only one chance at life.
This is not a rehearsal; it's the real thing.

Father, help me live sober Today.
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