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It's all their fault (and that's the truth!)
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TOPIC: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 40572 Views

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 04 Apr 2017 15:33 #310145

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cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 15:11:
I will listen; I will Probably not debate it.

I do not understand what you wrote.

Although others May be at fault, if it bothers Me, I need to work on what is wrong with me that I am affected.

pERHAPS mR CORDNOY, YOU GOT mIXED UP REGARDING WHICH THREAD YOU WERE pOSTING ON. IT HAPPENS TO THE BEST OF US. SOMETIMES I GET CONFUSED WHOSE BED I'M IN (THAT DIDN'T COME OUT WELL). (AND YOU mISSED A mE IN THE LAST pARAGRAPH.
i'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

if you're looking for trouble, you can email me @trouble69gye@outlook.com

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 04 Apr 2017 20:03 #310169

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GrowStrong wrote on 04 Apr 2017 14:27:

cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 14:12:

GrowStrong wrote on 04 Apr 2017 13:59:

Trouble wrote on 04 Apr 2017 13:35:
As people (or whatever you call those from countries in the south below the equator, on the (so-called) other side of the world (which I am not even sure really exists)) have been taking my words out of context, or taking context out of my words (which would serve them right), I feel the need to explain myself and to clarify (or not) my position on "blame."

I never said that one has the RIGHT to blame others. What I did say (I think) is that one should not automatically blame himself when there are others who are clearly at fault, or even if it's not so clear, and even if it's only partially their fault. Let us not get caught up in depression. The world can be sick and it is populated by sick people. Our actions perhaps can be justified by looking around us. Heck, it's easier than changing ourselves; isn't it? Why choose a difficult path when the answer is clearly (or not so clearly) in front of us, and it is not a mirror, but rather, it's the other guy/gal/#aborigine (and, yes, I know that I just traveled across the ocean, but seriously, is there a difference between the two? I view those countries as nothing more but a haven for beach volleyball); so, as an option, playing the blame game can work at times, and isn't this site all about games that work (and that can include throne games as well)?

We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrong-doing of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol. This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick.
Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, “This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done.’ ’


From the paragraphs I skip when reading the Big Book on my calls.
IMHO, it is completely counter productive for recovery.
Are there sick people? Yes.
Are they the cause of our problems? Usually not.
Who is? Us/me.

We don't all have the ability to hold no resentments and to never get hurt by our partners and friends actions.
We need to face the resentments and understand that while the root of the problem is us, and that while the majority of the resentments most likely come from FANCIED wrong-doings, ie that, that is not real, they like us are sick.
THEIR resentments, and inability to forgive or move on, is THEIR side of the street. Its not our side of the street.

"We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend."


By skipping out this section - you lose the importance of the fact that first and foremost it is ourselves that we need to show tolerance, pity and patience with. For they are like us. We are all spiritually sick. 
The difference? The non-addict remains with the negative emotions and doesn't medicate it away. Or they medicate it, but without a need to increase the dosage or with the ability to stop as they choose.
The addict medicates it.
I will of course be happy to debate you at length on the phone the argument that there are ideas in the big book that are counter productive to recovery.

Another reason why I don't understand the above is because I place little significance I the distinction between addict and non addict.

 There can be a לשיטתם (written on English, the damn moderator would strike a line thru it) goin' on here, for Dov places emphasis on steps 1-3, while I eschew step 4-7.
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Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 04 Apr 2017 22:04 #310177

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cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 20:03:
Another reason why I don't understand the above is because I place little significance I the distinction between addict and non addict.

 There can be a לשיטתם (written on English, the damn moderator would strike a line thru it) goin' on here, for Dov places emphasis on steps 1-3, while I eschew step 4-7.

So you are on the 8 step program?

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 04 Apr 2017 23:51 #310184

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cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 20:03:

GrowStrong wrote on 04 Apr 2017 14:27:

cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 14:12:

GrowStrong wrote on 04 Apr 2017 13:59:

Trouble wrote on 04 Apr 2017 13:35:
As people (or whatever you call those from countries in the south below the equator, on the (so-called) other side of the world (which I am not even sure really exists)) have been taking my words out of context, or taking context out of my words (which would serve them right), I feel the need to explain myself and to clarify (or not) my position on "blame."

I never said that one has the RIGHT to blame others. What I did say (I think) is that one should not automatically blame himself when there are others who are clearly at fault, or even if it's not so clear, and even if it's only partially their fault. Let us not get caught up in depression. The world can be sick and it is populated by sick people. Our actions perhaps can be justified by looking around us. Heck, it's easier than changing ourselves; isn't it? Why choose a difficult path when the answer is clearly (or not so clearly) in front of us, and it is not a mirror, but rather, it's the other guy/gal/#aborigine (and, yes, I know that I just traveled across the ocean, but seriously, is there a difference between the two? I view those countries as nothing more but a haven for beach volleyball); so, as an option, playing the blame game can work at times, and isn't this site all about games that work (and that can include throne games as well)?

We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrong-doing of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol. This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick.
Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, “This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done.’ ’


From the paragraphs I skip when reading the Big Book on my calls.
IMHO, it is completely counter productive for recovery.
Are there sick people? Yes.
Are they the cause of our problems? Usually not.
Who is? Us/me.

We don't all have the ability to hold no resentments and to never get hurt by our partners and friends actions.
We need to face the resentments and understand that while the root of the problem is us, and that while the majority of the resentments most likely come from FANCIED wrong-doings, ie that, that is not real, they like us are sick.
THEIR resentments, and inability to forgive or move on, is THEIR side of the street. Its not our side of the street.

"We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend."


By skipping out this section - you lose the importance of the fact that first and foremost it is ourselves that we need to show tolerance, pity and patience with. For they are like us. We are all spiritually sick. 
The difference? The non-addict remains with the negative emotions and doesn't medicate it away. Or they medicate it, but without a need to increase the dosage or with the ability to stop as they choose.
The addict medicates it.
I will of course be happy to debate you at length on the phone the argument that there are ideas in the big book that are counter productive to recovery.

Another reason why I don't understand the above is because I place little significance I the distinction between addict and non addict.

 There can be a לשיטתם (written on English, the damn moderator would strike a line thru it) goin' on here, for Dov places emphasis on steps 1-3, while I eschew step 4-7.

I also like to es and chew

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 04 Apr 2017 23:55 #310185

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GrowStrong wrote on 04 Apr 2017 22:04:

cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 20:03:
Another reason why I don't understand the above is because I place little significance I the distinction between addict and non addict.

 There can be a לשיטתם (written on English, the damn moderator would strike a line thru it) goin' on here, for Dov places emphasis on steps 1-3, while I eschew step 4-7.

So you are on the 8 step program?

Better than a half step program.

I saw today an advertisement for a sober Seder. Grape juice, obviously. They have 12 steps (instead of 15).
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 06:10 #310201

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cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 23:55:

GrowStrong wrote on 04 Apr 2017 22:04:

cordnoy wrote on 04 Apr 2017 20:03:
Another reason why I don't understand the above is because I place little significance I the distinction between addict and non addict.

 There can be a לשיטתם (written on English, the damn moderator would strike a line thru it) goin' on here, for Dov places emphasis on steps 1-3, while I eschew step 4-7.

So you are on the 8 step program?

Better than a half step program.

I saw today an advertisement for a sober Seder. Grape juice, obviously. They have 12 steps (instead of 15).

I love that we went into discussion on housecleaning and who's side of the road we need to focus on in Troubles thread blaming everyone else.

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 06:29 #310202

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Important to add the section from the second paragraph to give a fully rounded view of the topic.
Do you jump back in and read this part or is this also skipped normally.
I know Trouble, skips this whole chapter....

Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for
our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man’s. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.


Trouble, feel free to skip this reading

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 09:18 #310208

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Is there ever a situation where blaming someone else would actually be beneficial? I'm excluding dafka situations like a murder trial or something. You know, like you blame the judge for talking slowly.
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Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 11:27 #310218

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GrowStrong wrote on 05 Apr 2017 06:29:
Important to add the section from the second paragraph to give a fully rounded view of the topic.
Do you jump back in and read this part or is this also skipped normally.
I know Trouble, skips this whole chapter....

Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for
our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man’s. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.


Trouble, feel free to skip this reading :

​Of course, this is read; that's my entire point.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 13:02 #310220

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Singularity wrote on 05 Apr 2017 09:18:
Is there ever a situation where blaming someone else would actually be beneficial? I'm excluding dafka situations like a murder trial or something. You know, like you blame the judge for talking slowly.

Is there ever a situation where blaming others would NOT be beneficial?
Blaming others makes for a much easier life.
Isn't EASY what we are all striving for?
i'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

if you're looking for trouble, you can email me @trouble69gye@outlook.com

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 13:13 #310222

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Trouble wrote on 05 Apr 2017 13:02:

Singularity wrote on 05 Apr 2017 09:18:
Is there ever a situation where blaming someone else would actually be beneficial? I'm excluding dafka situations like a murder trial or something. You know, like you blame the judge for talking slowly.

Is there ever a situation where blaming others would NOT be beneficial?
Blaming others makes for a much easier life.
Isn't EASY what we are all striving for?

I think very few people on these forums are striving for easy. If they were, they would probably be back on the sites that they used to be on.

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 14:00 #310228

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Workingguy wrote on 05 Apr 2017 13:13:

Trouble wrote on 05 Apr 2017 13:02:

Singularity wrote on 05 Apr 2017 09:18:
Is there ever a situation where blaming someone else would actually be beneficial? I'm excluding dafka situations like a murder trial or something. You know, like you blame the judge for talking slowly.

Is there ever a situation where blaming others would NOT be beneficial?
Blaming others makes for a much easier life.
Isn't EASY what we are all striving for?

I think very few people on these forums are striving for easy. If they were, they would probably be back on the sites that they used to be on.

Perhaps there are few, but they/we are here.
i'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

if you're looking for trouble, you can email me @trouble69gye@outlook.com

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 14:43 #310237

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Ok. I think you're being pretty clear. And then yes, it is much easier to blame others than to take responsibility. But it actually becomes harder in the long run, because considering that you can't really change others the behavior will continue and you'll be busy blaming but frustrated that things don't change. When you take responsibility, you have the ability to change situation because you could change yourself.

Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 14:47 #310238

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Workingguy wrote on 05 Apr 2017 14:43:
Ok. I think you're being pretty clear. And then yes, it is much easier to blame others than to take responsibility. But it actually becomes harder in the long run, because considering that you can't really change others the behavior will continue and you'll be busy blaming but frustrated that things don't change. When you take responsibility, you have the ability to change situation because you could change yourself.

He can't even change his hairdo

Theres only so much you can expect from another fellow member

Try not to go too hard on him please
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Re: It's all their fault (and that's the truth!) 05 Apr 2017 15:11 #310239

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Workingguy wrote on 05 Apr 2017 14:43:
Ok. I think you're being pretty clear. And then yes, it is much easier to blame others than to take responsibility. But it actually becomes harder in the long run, because considering that you can't really change others the behavior will continue and you'll be busy blaming but frustrated that things don't change. When you take responsibility, you have the ability to change situation because you could change yourself.

If I'd have the time and patience and I wouldn't be a mod (for people will take offense to this), I would post this post to every thread on this forum. Take responsibility. What a concept. Changin' the situation by changin' yourself. What a novel (to some includin' me), refreshin' approach.

אילו היה רק פוסט זה בכל הפורם, ולא היה כל השאר, דיינו
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