Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 00:20:

Porn also has no sof
Is that an impediment to perusing 1% when we are in lusting mode?
No

So why not put in 1% into sobriety. That's it. Not 1 bit more, and see where it takes you

Thinking about you my friend!!

Markz wrote on 01 Mar 2017 01:29:

Sometimes I expect people to read my mind, and so I don't make myself understood in my words. I meant to say that it's hard to say that the problem is deep rooted because in deep rootedness there is no sof, so if that's the problem then there will always be a problem. But there must be a way to cut off of bad behavior even before all deep issues are resolved. So while I should dig deeper, I should simultaneously be trying to stop this behavior even before I've done a satisfactory job with the deeper stuff.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 03:04:

I think that's the AA principle of the first step being to stop drinking entirely. Even if you're still a wreck of a person. So good you've realised that.

Also, I've read about your BT analogies, and I feel some of them are BS (haha sorry, couldn't resist).

I'm a BT. I'll have you know it's not all about making the cut. Actually, the more I cut, the more I was cutting myself. And BT's who make the biggest cuts usually burn out the quickest. Keep it in mind.

Just to append to the above (in lieu of editing, because I want another post in my post count), about stopping before dealing with deeper issues, Rav Twerski says in "Teshuva through Recovery" that he agrees addiction is a primary disease, and even if based on deep psychological issues, must be addressed independently. I've heard Dov mirror these thoughts as well. 

Guess just bringing more ra'ayos.

Singularity wrote on 01 Mar 2017 07:14:

Then you are the right person to please tell me what becoming a BT is about.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 00:20:


The problem also came for me occasionally. For me the problem with anything other than changing my outlook on different areas of life, was the different gedarim that I made for myself all held up for a period.. By the time I came back to a situation that led me to act out, I had slipped in all my gedarim because whatever was going on in my life, caused me to loosen up on the gedarim as well. 
Life never became upset free for me and  I continue to deal with difficult times, but the way I deal with them changed because I managed to identify what was really bothering me, and deal with that. 
And yes it is true that going deeper has no sof. The deeper I have gone over the few years since joining gye, the healthier i have become and the more content and happy I have become. And at every stage new worlds of self awareness open up and it is beautiful. It is a positive thing and not negative. 

Have you not tried many different ways until now to cut off bad behavior? was the first attempt to stop acting out, coming to GYE? or did you try different things already only to fall back again and again?
I know I did. I tried fasting, I tried learning mussar, I tried filters, only to fall again and again. Yes each thing helped for a while.. until the next time. Eventually, I came to GYE and learned I was going about it the wrong way (for me at least) and only by changing my outlook, did I  manage to stay clean for an extended period of time. 

Una, I relate to all you wrote but could you elaborate some more?
Like you, I also learnt through the people here on GYE how to deal with life differently and I have also experienced this change where in a situation of stress I focus on my "side of the street", which is very liberating.
However, I haven't been able to keep away completely from escaping, so although there have been very big changes, it hasn't been as complete as yours.
Can you do a remote diagnosis?

Also, if I may add to Hashivah, the ein lo sof is not a reason not to do it. All growth is ein lo sof, but that's our purpose, and also as Una said, each stage of growth is its own world of change and brings its own dividends.
Hope this is appropriate.

unanumun wrote on 01 Mar 2017 17:42:

I think I know what my underlying issues are that bother me tremendously. I have known for a while but not managed to improve them much. I have tried therapy a bit, but got nowhere so I stopped. I would love to have a way to improve those things that bother me most. I'm not referring to this acting out, but I'm referring to managing to get to live the way I want to live. How did you get improvement in those types of things?

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 17:54:

You know my answer.

cordnoy wrote on 01 Mar 2017 18:30:

Your answer is too hard for me. We're trying to be honest, right?

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 18:39:

I think you just helped me make an extremely tough medical decision.

Thanks; greatly appreciated.

cordnoy wrote on 01 Mar 2017 18:30:

It's true that all you told me to do is a serious reading of the books, but you expect that to lesad to your following statement:
I went to meetings.
I had sponsors.
I read the books.
I worked the steps.
I spoke to therapists.
I sponsored others.
I met others.

Maybe I'm just not a truly sincere enough person. I say that I desperately want to better myself and my life, but when you make suggestions like that, I find myself unwilling. I would sooner physically cut myself, than do those things. I tell myself, it isn't the right way for me. But That's what it is folks, so as long as I am this not sincere enough person, which at this point seems to be still for a long time ahead, I will try to find an easier road that will work well, if that could be.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote on 01 Mar 2017 18:49:

Point taken.

But, all, or many of those things that I did, I did them one at a time. One tough decision after another. I wasn't born in the basement of a church. I didn't grow up with a chassideshe yid from Monroe as my sponsor. I didn't become bar mitzvah with a white book in my hand. My first phone call wasn't on a conference with 14 other people on talkin' about lingerie and clubs. I never had coffee in Starbucks with a Catholic teacher before workin' on our step sheets. My first doctor visit wasn't on the third floor of a non descript buildin' with a female sex therapist. I never thought I'd appreciate the park bench in yerushalayim, discussin' recovery with pidaini, dd, lavi, lizhensk, and more - even more than the kosel. Who would have thunk that I would use skype at one in the morning to chat with a geeky right wing zealot of a therapist instead of my favorite Romanian?

My point is that it took one tough step of positive action after another, all pointin' and headin' to changin' myself, my thoughts, my feelin's, my defects, and none of those had anythin' to do with guardin' my eyes (apologies to this site, and it is super if you work on guardin' your eyes as well).

B'hatzlachah

cordnoy wrote on 01 Mar 2017 19:33:

I understood that well. That's why I refuse to read the book. Because I know the direction where it's heading.