I figured I'd start a new thread for single guys to discuss some of the challenges that we may have in dealing with these issues while being single, (maybe I'm just a little jealous of all those super private married threads;) ) Like shiduchim/learning/working/social pressures or just about being single.

Figured I'd start it off with the super fun topic of.....dating. And heres todays topic, To tell or not to tell that is the question. has anyone here had any personal experience with having this dilemma during the shidduch process do you open up to the person your dating and divulge sensitive information while running the risk of scaring them off or do you not say in the hope that she will never find out and that it will stay your own private nisayon. I've heard arguments either way just wondering if anyone has had any real experience with this, married guys feel free to chime in if you took one specific course of action while dating and what kind of impact it had on your marriage, not just curious this topic has some real halacha l'masah ramifications for lots of guys out there, thanks (and someone please respond to this post i"d really hate to be the only single guy here:cheer: )

I thought this was gonna be a thread about Beyonce.

I didn't tell.

cordnoy


figured it would get some attention

cordnoy


dont mean to pry and if I'm crossing any lines let me know but do you feel that was beneficial or not.

Its a little weird trying to get hadracha on an anonymous forum I guess I'm just trying to get a feel for what worked for most people. In a way I'm very torn bec i realize this is more than just an acting out problem its really a big part of my life, and I'm not trying to hoodwink anyone into marrying me. i.e. if the tables were switched Id be pretty upset, but than again its possible that I may just be doing more harm than anything else by disclosing a lot of heavy stuff to someone who grew up fairly sheltered, also not sure how much they really understand about these struggles

Im married... i didn't tell. If i would have she would not have married me.. why would anbody want to marry a sick person unless they are 100% sure they will get better.
I have a better aitze: Get clean before you start dating. I have read many threads that this problem has destroyed there intimate life and married life in general.
Mine sufferd greatly because of this. Im only starting to realise to what extent now after i have been clean for while. So please do yourself a favor and get help before you get married you will have a much better life...

As a single guy who's been dating and asked almost all my rabbiem and others this question I feel it depends.
1) how bad does it affect you? Aka: how addicted are u?
2) how deep into the relationship are you? Do you feel safe with her/around her?
3) maybe the right time to say something is after marriage? Maybe never? Maybe say it in a hint type of way.
Eg: "we should have a filter in our house, I've had times where the Internet was a nisoyon". Or things like that.
I have found that the feeling of wanting to tell a girl is usually stronger when someone is more steeped in the issue. If you feel/are getting somewhat better the urge to want to say something will dissipate. Maybe it's because you just wanna leave this parsha behind you or wtvr but I find that with me. when I'm doing worse it's stronger, when I'm doing better it's weaker.
But definitely everything in its right time

My sponsor told me that not until a year of sobriety can i even think about dating. I agree with him (it's annoying but i agree). in terms of logic, after a year of sobriety someone should be a different person in terms of communication, isolation, honesty, anger management etc. all things essential for a good marriage. to quote dr. twersky, "in all my years i have discovered that AA isn't about alcohol, NA about drugs, SA about sex, they are about character defects and building oneself". (this was a response as to if one is ever cured from addiction, his answer was unless you don't have any character defects).

i know that for me, i would not want to marry myself right now, even with social pressures to date and shidduchim coming in. (i am a good "catch" apparently). what my sponsor told me has also been reiterated by many others, i think it has a basis in SA somewhere, not the expert to say exactly where though(cordy?).

even so, there are many people with long term sobriety in program who's marriage lives aren't close to perfect, divorce is on the radar for some of these folks. why? because one can be "sober" but still not sober in the greater sense, i'm not even talking about a "dry drunk", the urge can be pretty much lifted even. however, if one hasn't worked on character development then he will not be able to function with serenity in life. i know that for me i want a serene marriage for the most part. and ya, i REALLY want to date even now. but i know it's not good for me. my character defects are just too present.

I'm not sure which part you wanted in the literature, but Dov and serenity are experts in the texts. Eye is as well.

first off I want to thank everyone for all their reply's I've really been thinking about this topic a lot lately. shlomo i hear where your coming from but people in program told me the same thing absolutely no dating whatsoever... and for me it had the opposite effect. i lost hope for the future if I'm just a single guy all on my own so what if I act out a little its not like I'm really hurting anyone, i got depressed and ended up just acting out a lot more. spoke to my therapist whose a "program" guy and we came up with a method that i could absolutely date while I work on my recovery (if not as an aid to my recovery) just I couldn't go out with a girl within three days of acting out no different if i was physically sick i would call off a date same if i acted out i would need 3 days clean and it help me a lot it gave me the hope something to look forward to.

also really agree with you that the main problem is not acting out that was always my solution my problems were my charterer defects and for some time now that's what ive been working on, its not about how long i can stay sober but about what kind of person i am how i deal with my challenges. These defects will be with me till the day i die I will never "recover" from my challenges i will get better one situation at a time but that's why its so hard to put a number on when to start dating, when will I be perfect...never. when will i have spent enough time getting to know myself, my triggers and my defects better, probably now. can i guarantee that i will never act out again...absolutely not i cant guarantee i wont act out once I'm married but like you said its not about physical sobriety its about emotional health. make sense?

Mr. Clean



totally relate with nearly everything you said . the funny thing is i can be sober for 3 days and feel like i don't have any problems keilu lo hoya and then boom i get hit with reality (anyone relate?) so sometimes its just hard to gauge how I'm actually doing, but thanks again really related

i completely agree with 9494. i don't know ur therapist, and i far from being a qualified person in this matter, but i do have lust issues. i would not trust the 3 day rule, doesn't sound too hot to me. acting out is a symbol of things going wrong, it is not the reason why things are going wrong. it's not like strep throat that goes away with time, it only lessens with consistent effort. 3 days probably won't cure anything. also time has shown that relying on other factors to keep us sober has barely ever worked in the long run. iy"h when u are married for 10 years, the luster of staying sober for your wife might fall away, i could here someone staying sober while he is engaged or newly married, but long term i wouldn't take any chances.

in terms of defects, no you don't have to be perfect. but we have to be at a state that we can have appropriate and honest relationships. that our anger won't get in the way often, that self-seeking will be a far second to giving to others. marriage is all about giving from what i have been told by many people. my rebbi said the key to shalom bayis is that the wife is always right, always apologize even if she is wrong. i know that i am not at all at that stage yet.

and i would like to reiterate what 9494 said, "But I think the main point of a big number - such as a year - is to ensure that we are not dating from the point of view of trying to full a void in our lives, and also in order to get some maturity under our belts." that is completely true. we shouldn't be dating b/c others are nor should we be dating b/c we really want to get married. dating is for when we are ready and able to get married. i have a friend who is 25 and he just started dating, why? b/c he wasn't sober and he wasn't ready to date. and b"h now he is a different person, who knows what would have happened had he got married.